Cloud Flying

snoop wrote:
Chris, this is the exact reason I'm still looking for the technical
answers. You just made about every working pilot reading your celebrity
dialouge, pass out. "11o'clock 15 miles", your descending out of who
knows what exact altitude, and the big boy is climbing toward you, this
would wake everyone up. I would venture that the captain on that AA
flights' first thought would be, "we're turning now", then he would ask
the center about the accuracy of the gliders' altimeter.

So Snoop, just by replacing the word "glider" in the above exchange
with "your favorite trustworthy aircraft", your whole attitude would
change?

Explain exactly why hearing the work "Lear" for example would make you
feel better?

I'm sure there's a few rotting away at airports that are marginally
airworthy, and might even have an owner who flew IFR 20 years ago, and
is just itchin' to go fly......

Bottom line - if the glider is on a clearance we MUST assume the glider
will behave just as any other aircraft. Because if we don't, then how
on earth can we assume any one of the other aircraft will behave as
well?

This whole discussion is about SOARING in clouds. Except in the
mountains, this means there WILL be a decent clearance between ground,
VMC, and cloudbase. The glider pilot is not concerned with terrain,
because in this situation it IS NOT AN ISSUE. If it were, the glider
pilot likely would not fly. You are clouding the issue by insisting
the glider operation take place at 500' AGL in fog directly over the
tower at DFW.

What we are talking about is operation at say, 6,000' AGL and above in
the middle of Kansas. The only issues are about what is required to be
legal to continue circling up into that nice towering cu. And once
topped out at FL200, the glider pops out the side, then continues on to
the next nice cloud in VMC. The glider pilot has, at all times, the
option to change course and descend if asked by ATC. The controller
and glider pilot COMMUNICATE, and establish an understanding that it
may be possible that the glider will hit sink, but in that case, there
is always the option to change course to stay clear of any traffic
below the glider.

As others have posted, flight in IMC without an autopilot can be
difficult and tiring. The glider is only using the cloud to thermal
up, then glide out the side in order to spend as little time in cloud
as possible. This XC flight has no need of any fancy navigational
equipment beyond a compass, as the pilot is planning to be VMC 95% of
the time.

-Tom
CFIG, PVT ASEL with about 150 hours in airplanes, no instrument
experience, and not planning to fly into clouds anytime soon.

5Z wrote:

....
-Tom
CFIG, PVT ASEL with about 150 hours in airplanes, no instrument
experience, and not planning to fly into clouds anytime soon.

Funny that despite your non existing experience and intention, you seem
to be the only one who actually understands what cloud flying in gliders
is all about.

Stefan

5Z wrote:
snoop wrote:

This whole discussion is about SOARING in clouds.
What we are talking about is operation at say, 6,000' AGL and above in
the middle of Kansas. The only issues are about what is required to be
legal to continue circling up into that nice towering cu. And once
topped out at FL200, the glider pops out the side, then continues on to
the next nice cloud in VMC.

This has been a fascinating discussion, but this post from 5Z is the
only one which actually made any sense to me.

I don't come from the Land of the Free but from over-regulated UK. To
fly in clouds I make sure I'm not in danger of entering controlled
airspace, call on 103.4, and if no-one answers that they're in the same
cloud I climb into it. No instrument rating, nothing but my own
assessment of whether I can do it safely. That's our law. I'm sure
there's an offence of reckless flying (or equivalent), but I'm prepared
to defend my decision so off I go.

Now, if 5Z could tell me how to straighten up and pop out of the side,
rather than blundering about on strange ellipses and eventually sinking
out of the bottom, I might be able to make use of cloud climbs.

What does concern me is this fear of the regulations. OK, I'm a lawyer,
but that just means I know that there's no certainty in any laws. My
view is that if it's not specifically outlawed, and you think that it's
safe and a desirable thing to do, then you should just do it. No
prosecutor brings a case if there not a better than 50/50 chance of winning.

If we're going to restrict ourselves to what's completely risk free, why
are we flying? And if any of us stop doing what is, more likely than
not, legal in our countries, some regulator will use that as an excuse
to stop us doing it in future because there's no demand for it.

What's wrong with you guys? Was the Boston Tea Party for nothing? If you
meet the FAR requirements and want to fly in clouds, why aren't you
doing it?