Silly controller

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Umm, I would like to see this cancellation scenario happen when the IFR
student is on his check ride with either an FAA examiner or DER in the
plane... Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...

Anyway, if you are not truly VFR or if you need that IFR approach for
currency there is that word in the regs, "Unable", for a reason... A
single word, unadorned - and no further explanation will be offered by
me any more than he did. The controller is then obligated to continue
to handle you IFR...
Now, having said that, being normally a cooperative cuss, and if I am
just shooting the approach to stay sharp, and he is busy, etc., I won't
care, I'll simply grunt, "roger that, 57 pop", hit the 1200 button and
continue the approach...

denny

Denny wrote:
.. Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...


It's all the FAA. They often never talk to each other.

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Umm, I would like to see this cancellation scenario happen when the IFR
student is on his check ride with either an FAA examiner or DER in the
plane... Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...

Which two of the three (Judicial, Legislative, Executive)?

Are you one of those modern public school graduates? :~)

"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?
Or "Cleared to Land"

Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:


Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

-Robert


The system is designed to process a formally filed IFR flight plan from
one airport to another. The formal tower-en route program in Southern
California works, too, because it is formalized.

Pop-ups without a filed flight plan, and local training flights
sometimes get mishandled because, unlike the foregoing, they just aren't
in the "system" in a formal sense.

"Robert M. Gary" writes:

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?
Or "Cleared to Land"

Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established"
contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude,
and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed
approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance?

I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".

(Christopher C. Stacy) writes:

"Robert M. Gary" writes:

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?
Or "Cleared to Land"

Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established"
contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude,
and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed
approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance?

I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".

I phoned Boston TRACON for their opinion, and the supervisor said that when
(for example) receiving multiple practice approaches in VFR conditions,
with the phraeology given above: unless the magic words "maintain VFR"
are in the instruction, you are in the system, receiving IFR separation,
and in the event of lost comm would be expected (in VFR conditions) to land.

And if you are not IR rated and current, they just put you
in violation of the FAR.




"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in
message ...
| (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
|
| "Robert M. Gary" writes:
|
| Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
| "Steven P. McNicoll"
writes:
|
| "Christopher C. Stacy" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| When he gave you the clearance for the approach,
did he say
| "Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.
|
|
| No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."
|
| Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar
maintain 2000 until established" ?
| Or "Cleared to Land"
|
| Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference
between being IFR and
| VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to
foobar".
|
| The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar
maintain 2000 until established"
| contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR
procedure), an altitude,
| and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or
executing the published missed
| approach procedure). How is that not an IFR
clearance?
|
| I think it is, unless the controller adds the words
"maintain VFR".
| When I want a practice approach and the controller fails
to say "VFR",
| I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
| "Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".
|
| I phoned Boston TRACON for their opinion, and the
supervisor said that when
| (for example) receiving multiple practice approaches in
VFR conditions,
| with the phraeology given above: unless the magic words
"maintain VFR"
| are in the instruction, you are in the system, receiving
IFR separation,
| and in the event of lost comm would be expected (in VFR
conditions) to land.