Crashing on takeoff... how odd

I can see how they got disoriented in the dark (my guess) and I can see how
the tower wouldn't necessarily pick up that they were on the wrong runway,
but I can't understand why the 'WTF is going on here' alarm didn't go off in
the Pilot or Co-pilots head as they were starting a takeoff roll down a 75'
wide runway in poor shape, as opposed to the newer 150' wide runway they
were supposed to be on.
That is, if this is what really happened.
I believe it would be obvious to me if I had my little 172 on a 75' runway
when I expected 150' wide.
We're all armchair quarterbacks at this point.
My heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones.
--
My 2¢ YMMV
Alex
wrote in message
ups.com...
I remember a recent discussion with a pilot mate where I was mentioning
how illogical a crash-shortly-after-takeoff is, given that beyond V1
takeoff can safely be continued even with just one good engine. I'd
even told him that if I saw an aircraft airborne following takeoff, I'd
presume it safe.

Days after that tete-a-tete, a Fokker went down in Pakistan shortly
after taking off. And today the Bombardier at Kentucky.

Doesn't add up, does it? After all, if the engines are good and there's
no bomb going off, it should be pretty hard to crash an aircraft!

Ramapriya

Alex Pitschmann wrote:

I can see how they got disoriented in the dark (my guess) and I can see how
the tower wouldn't necessarily pick up that they were on the wrong runway,
but I can't understand why the 'WTF is going on here' alarm didn't go off in
the Pilot or Co-pilots head as they were starting a takeoff roll down a 75'
wide runway in poor shape, as opposed to the newer 150' wide runway they
were supposed to be on.
That is, if this is what really happened.
I believe it would be obvious to me if I had my little 172 on a 75' runway
when I expected 150' wide.
We're all armchair quarterbacks at this point.
My heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones.

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last checks
I was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to check that
the heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I was cleared
for takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this check and it
will catch this error every time.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last checks I
was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to check that the
heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I was cleared for
takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this check and it will
catch this error every time.


Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last checks I
was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to check that the
heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I was cleared for
takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this check and it will
catch this error every time.



Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference
for the DG.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message news:UunIg.769

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable.


Well, that would also be a mistake ......

A few things I learned in the past 35 years are A) there are at least 2,
and sometimes 3+ sides to every story; B) any mistake that can possibly be
made, will eventually be made; and C) anyone who's ever flown
professionally will never make absolute statements about a recent accident.

Under the principle of res ipsa loquitur, its clear that 1 or more mistakes
were made in this event. We now have a very rare opportunity to evaluate,
in that the FO has survived, hopefully to shed light on the crew's thought
process and decision making immediately pre-takeoff.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference for
the DG.


Perhaps, but it's one that many use and it works quite well if you know the
magnetic azimuth of the runway.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference for
the DG.



Perhaps, but it's one that many use and it works quite well if you know the
magnetic azimuth of the runway.

It works well if you know what runway you are on. However, a runway can
be quite a ways off the magnetic azimuth before it gets renumbered so
you could easily be 5 degrees off on your DG setting.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

It works well if you know what runway you are on. However, a runway can
be quite a ways off the magnetic azimuth before it gets renumbered so you
could easily be 5 degrees off on your DG setting.


As I said, it works quite well if you know the magnetic azimuth of the
runway.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last checks I
was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to check that the
heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I was cleared for
takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this check and it will
catch this error every time.


Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.


Speaking for myself, if I get on a runway and see an error that large, I
check to see if something else has been wrong. Especially if I'm IFR, I
don't want a 40 degree error on my DG.

That being said, I almost took off on the wrong runway once, and figured
it out before I did. It does happen, probably more than the public
realizes.

Emily wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even
line up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable. One of the last
checks I was taught to make before firewalling the throttle is to
check that the heading of the airplane matches the runway to which I
was cleared for takeoff. It takes less than two seconds to make this
check and it will catch this error every time.


Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset
the gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Speaking for myself, if I get on a runway and see an error that large, I
check to see if something else has been wrong. Especially if I'm IFR, I
don't want a 40 degree error on my DG.

That being said, I almost took off on the wrong runway once, and figured
it out before I did. It does happen, probably more than the public
realizes.

I landed on the wrong runway at Reading, PA early in my flying career.
I was cleared for a right downwind to R36 and hadn't made many right
traffic patterns before. I wasn't paying sufficient attention and ended
up lining up on 31 and didn't cross-check the DG as I should have. I
noticed the error at almost the same time the controller did, but
traffic wasn't a factor so he just came on quickly and said something
like "it appears you are lined up for 31 rather than 36, cleared to land
31."

I definitely understand how this can happen which is one reason I'm much
more careful now about cross-checking with the compass and DG,
especially when flying IFR.

Matt