Silly controller

Sam Spade wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain
VFR.

Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?


No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain
VFR.

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.

Sam Spade wrote:


No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't
maintain VFR.


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

When you're VFR. You asked to be vectored/sequenced for an approach.
Just how do you think he's going to do that?




I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Then that was wrong. An IFR clearance must start with "cleared to..."

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance?

It never was an IFR clearance. It may be a cardinal IFR altitude, but
being at an altitude isn't the same as a clearance.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:8UrIg.204$c07.37@fed1read04...

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?


It never did.



I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.


Nope.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.

Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.


Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Actually, it may be a pre-TCA/Class B thing. Before the TCA came into
existence I don't believe there was any provision to assign an altitude
to a VFR aircraft.

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:25:39 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.


Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Actually, it may be a pre-TCA/Class B thing. Before the TCA came into
existence I don't believe there was any provision to assign an altitude
to a VFR aircraft.

Pre-TCA was before my time. :-)

But here in the NE, at least with the ATC facilities that I've worked with,
an IFR clearance has always included a clearance limit. I've had
controllers sometimes forget I'm IFR, but I've not had them ask me to
report canceling IFR absent a prior, proper IFR clearance.

Best,
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)