$640.00 to fill the tanks...

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:04:02 GMT, Jose
wrote:
It's not a high level language. Maybe Pascal would fit.

Gag me with a TK50 !!!

I've done Ada for NASA many years ago and even they eventually saw the
error in their ways and and went back to 'C'... Pascal is not even a
contender... Modula-II is quite a bit better than Pascal, but I'll
stay with C/C++ anyday...

In article ,
Grumman-581 wrote:

I've done Ada for NASA many years ago and even they eventually saw the
error in their ways and and went back to 'C'... Pascal is not even a
contender... Modula-II is quite a bit better than Pascal, but I'll
stay with C/C++ anyday...

yeah - C is a wonderful programming language for critical software.

not.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Bob Noel wrote:

In article ,
Grumman-581 wrote:


I've done Ada for NASA many years ago and even they eventually saw the
error in their ways and and went back to 'C'... Pascal is not even a
contender... Modula-II is quite a bit better than Pascal, but I'll
stay with C/C++ anyday...


yeah - C is a wonderful programming language for critical software.

You have me worried...

not.

Oh, much better now.

Yes, C is great for those who don't much care about the quality of their
software, which, unfortunately, is the preponderance of programmers.

Matt

Yes, C is great for those who don't much care about the quality of their software, which, unfortunately, is the preponderance of programmers.

C is great for those who care a lot about the quality of their own work,
and therefore don't rely on the language to catch them.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

Yes, C is great for those who don't much care about the quality of
their software, which, unfortunately, is the preponderance of
programmers.


C is great for those who care a lot about the quality of their own work,
and therefore don't rely on the language to catch them.

Wow, I've never heard that excuse before ... not. Any skilled
tradesperson or professional will use better tools when they are
available. Programmers are one of the few professions that don't. I
honestly have tried to figure this out, as have many others, but I'm
still stumped.

Matt

Any skilled tradesperson or professional will use better tools when they are available. Programmers are one of the few professions that don't.

Maybe it's because programmers think they know what they're doing, and
like the flexibility of a language that lets them discover the lie
themselves.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
Any skilled tradesperson or professional will use better tools when
they are available. Programmers are one of the few professions that
don't.


Maybe it's because programmers think they know what they're doing, and
like the flexibility of a language that lets them discover the lie
themselves.

That's as good a theory as any I've heard. I'm constantly amazed when I
hear (still!) about security breaches and other errors caused by
overruning of array boundaries and similar errors that were eliminated
20+ years ago in many languages yet which soldier on in C. Yes, I'm
aware of tools like Lint and such made to combat this, but many folks
still don't use such tools.


Matt

In a previous article, Matt Whiting said:
Jose wrote:
C is great for those who care a lot about the quality of their own work,
and therefore don't rely on the language to catch them.

Wow, I've never heard that excuse before ... not. Any skilled
tradesperson or professional will use better tools when they are
available. Programmers are one of the few professions that don't. I
honestly have tried to figure this out, as have many others, but I'm
still stumped.

You know who else are stumped? Carpenters who wanted to catch their own
mistakes rather than having safety guards on their saws.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Every computer crashes, because every OS sucks"
- Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

("Paul Tomblin" wrote)
You know who else are stumped? Carpenters who wanted to catch their own
mistakes rather than having safety guards on their saws.


g


Montblack

On 2006-08-28, Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, Matt Whiting said:
Wow, I've never heard that excuse before ... not. Any skilled
tradesperson or professional will use better tools when they are
available. Programmers are one of the few professions that don't. I
honestly have tried to figure this out, as have many others, but I'm
still stumped.

You know who else are stumped? Carpenters who wanted to catch their own
mistakes rather than having safety guards on their saws.

Sometimes, C or C++ is the right tool for the job.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone should write C professionally
until they've used asm in anger (any asm, it doesn't matter which). When
you've written an asm program, and see some buffer run off the end and
over your stack, you understand on a visceral level why you should check
buffers. Those developers who've only ever used a compiler may not be
aware of how things might get arranged in memory, and might believe that
a buffer overflow will just cause a crash. Those who have written stuff
in asm - any asm, even 8 bit stuff, will know that the RET instruction
gets the return address off the stack. They will therefore also know the
consequences of something smashing through the stack, and replacing the
word on the stack that contains the return address. They will know this
because to write anything non-trivial in asm, they will have had to have
thought about this kind of thing.

--
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Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de