Crashing on takeoff... how odd

(Tony" wrote)
Aen't all airline pilots required to operate from the field before they
carry passengers from it?


I've never heard of this before.


Montblack

In article ,
"Montblack" wrote:

Aren't all airline pilots required to operate from the field before they
carry passengers from it?

I've never heard of this before.

All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization flights
into and out of any airport they intend to serve several times without
passengers before they begin passenger service. (There is a term for it,
but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

Having said that, I wonder if they are given credit for using the sim to
fullfil this requirement in these days of high level simulators?

john smith wrote:

All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization flights
into and out of any airport they intend to serve several times without
passengers before they begin passenger service. (There is a term for it,
but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

Does it count if the one of the two flight deck crewmembers has been
there, or do both require familiarization?

B A R R Y wrote

john smith wrote:

All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization
flights into and out of any airport they intend to serve several
times without passengers before they begin passenger service. (There
is a term for it, but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

Does it count if the one of the two flight deck crewmembers has been
there, or do both require familiarization?

Notice that John said "aircarriers" not pilots. Pilots are not
required to have previous entries into an airport.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

Bob Moore wrote:

Pilots are not required to have previous entries into an airport.


Brings me around to asking what I wanted to for a while now... what on
earth is it that 'airport familiarity' provides that an approach plate
doesn't?

If we can navigate in cars using street maps on the roads, it must be a
breeze from the air, what?

Ramapriya

Brings me around to asking what I wanted to for a while now... what on
earth is it that 'airport familiarity' provides that an approach plate
doesn't?

If we can navigate in cars using street maps on the roads, it must be a
breeze from the air, what?

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is.

Sure, we can navigate in cars using street maps on the roads, but it's a
lot easier going somewhere when you're familiar with the area. You
recognize stuff in real life that isn't even on the maps. Sometimes the
squiggles on the maps make things look important that aren't, and look
unimportant that are. You can probably make your way home blindfolded,
but haven't you ever been creeping along at night in the rain looking
for 35th Avenue (it's between 34th Avenue and Sedona Place, but 34th
Avenue is off at some cockeyed angle and the street sign is missing,
there's traffic behind you and you think you just missed Sedona, or was
that Sequoia... and yes, the windshield wiper blade should have been
changed the last time it rained.

As for navigating the roads by air, ever tried it? You can't see the
street signs, you often can't see the streets for the trees (unless you
live in the desert); everything looks different. It can be done; I've
done it, and it's kind of fun, but it's not the cinch you make it out to be.

When you are familiar with an airport, you know where to go by many many
cues (shapes of buildings, light patterns, the pond on the left, the
runup area that's white concrete instead of black tarmac...) these
things are not shown on approach plates.

A real look counts for a lot.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is.





As for navigating the roads by air, ever tried it? You can't see the
street signs, you often can't see the streets for the trees (unless you
live in the desert); everything looks different. It can be done; I've
done it, and it's kind of fun, but it's not the cinch you make it out to be.

When you are familiar with an airport, you know where to go by many many
cues (shapes of buildings, light patterns, the pond on the left, the
runup area that's white concrete instead of black tarmac...) these
things are not shown on approach plates.

A real look counts for a lot.


Very nicely written. Makes me feel that flying into a familiar airport
just adds an extra layer to the pilot's situational awareness, when not
in IFR or VMC. Didn't know that you guys verify your position visually
with cues from lakes, buildings, light patterns... no kidding?

Not trying to be derogatory here, but won't flying into an unfamiliar
airport ensure that you check and double-check everything? )

Thanks again Jose,

Ramapriya

wrote in message

... what on
earth is it that 'airport familiarity' provides that an approach plate
doesn't?

topography, color, visual angles and cues.

Bob Moore wrote:

Notice that John said "aircarriers" not pilots. Pilots are not
required to have previous entries into an airport.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)


That makes sense.

PanAm? A friend of mine's dad retired from PanAm in the early 80's. He
was a NY based 747 pilot.

"john smith" wrote in message
...


All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization flights
into and out of any airport they intend to serve several times without
passengers before they begin passenger service. (There is a term for it,
but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

Having said that, I wonder if they are given credit for using the sim to
fullfil this requirement in these days of high level simulators?

When was this regulation put into effect? It wasn't there in ~1980 I was a
gate agent here at ELD when Skyways started flying in to the airport. For
the first month with few exceptions when those Metroliners came in it was
the first time the crew had ever been to that airport.