CRJ crash at KLEX:

You just proved her point. You placed blame and stopped, having learned
nothing.
Sure the pilots are probably at fault, but what lead them to that fault and
what can be done to prevent other pilots from making the same mistake?

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...

As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee

First Officer WAS the pilot ... and lived! There was another pilot
aboard, an AirTran pilot who was catching a ride to Atlanta to pilot a
flight.

Plane weighed 49,087 pounds and would have required 3,539 feet to
rotate.

The runway was 3,500 feet.

Three tire marks are in the grass at the end of runway.

Plane hit a "burm" and became airborne.

390 feet past the runway the plane struck a fence.

Cleared a barbed wire fence at 920 feet.

Hit a stand of trees and continued 900 feet beyond trees.

No skid marks on runway. Reverse thrusters not deployed. Breaking
spoilers not deployed.

Total elapsed time from when acceleration began to the end of the
cockpit voice recording: 29 seconds.

NTSB collecting and examining NOTAMS.

Same thing happened at the same airport 13 years ago ... but an alert
control tower operator stopped them in their tracks!

ACN: 256788

Time / Day
Date : 199311
Local Time Of Day : 0601 To 1200
Day : Sat

Place
Locale Reference.Airport : LEX
State Reference : KY
Altitude.AGL.Bound Upper : 0
Altitude.AGL.Bound Lower : 0

Environment
Flight Conditions : Marginal
Light : Daylight

Aircraft : 1
Controlling Facilities.Tower : LEX
Operator.Common Carrier : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase.Ground : Holding
Flight Plan : IFR

Person : 1
Affiliation.Company : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Crew : First Officer
Qualification.Pilot : ATP
Experience.Flight Time.Last 90 Days : 100
Experience.Flight Time.Total : 3500
Experience.Flight Time.Type : 50
ASRS Report : 256788

Person : 2
Affiliation.Company : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Crew : Captain
Function.Oversight : PIC
Qualification.Pilot : ATP

Events
Anomaly.Incursion : Runway
Anomaly.Other Anomaly.Other
Anomaly.Non Adherence : Clearance
Independent Detector.Other.ControllerA
Resolutory Action.Other
Resolutory Action.Flight Crew : Returned to Intended Course or Assigned
Course

Assessments
Primary Problem : Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident : Pilot Deviation

Narrative
ACFT WAS CLRED FOR IMMEDIATE TKOF (TFC INSIDE THE MARKER) ON RWY 22. WE
TAXIED ONTO RWY AND TOLD TWR WE NEEDED A MOMENT TO CHK OUR DEP ROUTING
WITH OUR WX RADAR (STORMS IN THE AREA, RAINING AT THE ARPT). WE
REALIZED OUR HDG WAS NOT CORRECT FOR ASSIGNED RWY AND AT THAT MOMENT
TWR CALLED US TO CANCEL TKOF CLRNC BECAUSE WE WERE LINED UP ON RWY 26.
WE TAXIED CLR AND HELD SHORT OF RWY 22 FOR LNDG TFC. WE TOOK OFF ON RWY
22 AND PROCEEDED WITHOUT INCIDENT. POSSIBLE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS WERE
POOR VISIBILITY AND WX (RAIN), CONFUSING RWY INTXN AND TWR'S REQUEST
FOR AN IMMEDIATE TKOF. SUGGEST POSSIBLE WARNING PAGE (SIMILAR TO
HOUSTON HOBBY) TO CLARIFY MULTIPLE RWY ENDS.

Synopsis
FLC OF AN MLG ACR ACFT INADVERTENTLY TAXIED INTO POS FOR TKOF ON THE
WRONG RWY.

SUGGEST POSSIBLE WARNING PAGE (SIMILAR TO
HOUSTON HOBBY) TO CLARIFY MULTIPLE RWY ENDS.

What does this mean? Where would the page go? What would it say?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
SUGGEST POSSIBLE WARNING PAGE (SIMILAR TO
HOUSTON HOBBY) TO CLARIFY MULTIPLE RWY ENDS.

What does this mean? Where would the page go? What would it say?

Jose

The first page of their Jep binders? In bold letters on any/all SIDs for
KLEX?

"NOTICE TO CREW OPERATING OUT OF KLEX, Lexington, Kentucky"

CLOSE PROXIMITY OF RWY 22 and RWY 26

As the departure ends of RWY 22 and RWY 26 are in very close proximity to
each other, exercise extreme caution and confirm visually and by reference
to flight instruments that you are on RWY 22. RWY 26 UNUSABLE for turbine
aircraft use.

Jay B

Emily writes:

You're wrong there. It's happened before.

How many died?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Emily writes:

So you've found him guilty already?

Everything points to pilot error thus far. If the evidence ultimately
points to something else, I'll accept it.

I have a zero-tolerance policy for stupid mistakes by commercial
pilots, so these pilots had better have a really, really good
explanation for using the wrong runway.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Go to the following link and scroll through "The Photos" until you get
to one that shows the taxiways to both runways 22 and 26. There is a
taxiway not shown on my airport layout that is even better for runway
22. Instead of heading directly towards the numbers (that taxiway is
still there), it goes more to the right and onto an "underrun" area
with chevrons pointing towards the threshold.

http://www.wcpo.com/specials/2006/5191/

If this is the taxiway change that some are reporting it seems to be
even better than before and in either case they must cross Rwy 26 to
get to Rwy 22.

Ron Lee

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what they did.
WOW
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. com...
Kev wrote:


I haven't looked yet, but probably the sat images are way out of date.
Didn't they mention in the news that they just extended that runway 26
by 600' on both ends?



Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:%wQIg.18211$RD.8675@fed1read08...
"Jose" wrote in message
et...
SUGGEST POSSIBLE WARNING PAGE (SIMILAR TO
HOUSTON HOBBY) TO CLARIFY MULTIPLE RWY ENDS.

What does this mean? Where would the page go? What would it say?

Jose

The first page of their Jep binders? In bold letters on any/all SIDs for
KLEX?

"NOTICE TO CREW OPERATING OUT OF KLEX, Lexington, Kentucky"

CLOSE PROXIMITY OF RWY 22 and RWY 26

As the departure ends of RWY 22 and RWY 26 are in very close proximity to
each other, exercise extreme caution and confirm visually and by reference
to flight instruments that you are on RWY 22. RWY 26 UNUSABLE for turbine
aircraft use.

Jay B