Comair Pilot Error

"Dave Doe" wrote in message
. nz...
Have you (now lets get the context right) ever taken off on the wrong
runway?

How is that relevant?

[...]
No - you've provided a different question - thereby completely changing
the original point - that taking off on the wrong runway is not a simple
mistake, it's a very very serious one. It's on par with without the
gear down.

I don't know what you mean by that. My point is simply that I don't see the
point in getting angry at someone for making a mistake. I realize this is
Usenet, and I realize it's quite common for people who use Usenet to get
angry at the drop of a hat. I'm simply offering my opinion that anger seems
more reasonably reserved for people who *intentionally* do something wrong.

Too many people in the world do things wrong unintentionally, on too regular
a basis. Using that as one's standard for anger would result in one being
angry most of the time. Granted, many people go through life like that.
But it doesn't have to be that way, and this is a classic example of a
situation where anger is out of place.

[...]
With all due respect, the mistake made is *very* serious...

I never said that the mistake wasn't serious. I never said it wasn't pilot
error. I don't know where you get that, but you need to go back and reread
my post if that's what you think you read.

What I said is that there's no evidence that the pilots were BLATANTLY
IRRESPONSIBLE. As far as we know, they weren't drunk. As far as we know,
they didn't toss the checklist out of the window. As far as we know, they
didn't have a flight attendant sitting in their lap. For all we know, they
DID cross-check the runway number with their magnetic heading, and simply
failed to see the discrepancy. Fatigue is a powerful skills reducer and it
can make you see things or not see things that aren't or are there.

* throwing a divider at school when you were 15 and getting someone in
the leg is a stupid thing to do.
* driving drunk at high speed and killing someone (by accident) - well.

Again, I have no idea what these two things are supposed to mean. Drunk
driving is a conscious decision to do something blatantly irresponsible.
There's absolutely no evidence that these pilots did anything of the sort.

[...]
By the way, while the weather was VFR, it was an hour before sunrise.
That
is, basically still pitch dark. The poorer quality of runway may not
have
been apparent lit only by the airplane's lights, and there may have been
some fluke with the signage that led the pilots to think they were at the
correct runway. Your assertion that fatigue or the early hour could not
have been an issue is simply absurd. There are at least a dozen other
factors that have already been reported that could have been
contributory,
and there are dozens, if not hundreds more that no one has even thought
of
or identified yet.

You're making your own unvalidated assertions now.

Such as? Name one unvalidated assertion I made.

[...]
I'll agree with you on that point.. however, it's not looking good for
the pilots. Is it?

Define "looking good". I think it goes without saying that pilots who take
off from the wrong runway made a mistake. It's certainly pilot error.
There's no question about that. But was their error a blatantly
irresponsible act? There's absolutely no evidence that it was.

Pete

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:50:23 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:
Define "looking good". I think it goes without saying that pilots who take
off from the wrong runway made a mistake. It's certainly pilot error.
There's no question about that. But was their error a blatantly
irresponsible act? There's absolutely no evidence that it was.

Which brings up a good question... If the NTSB report does finally
confirm that it was in fact pilot error and if the pilot who is
current in the hospital survives, what are his likely career
consequences? Is it completely down the tubes or is there a chance
that he might still remain working as an ATP? I suspect that up until
he saw the fence, he was *positive* that he was on the right runway...
Of course, soon after seeing the fence, he comment was probably
something like, "Oh ****..."...

Grumman-581 wrote:

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:50:23 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:
Define "looking good". I think it goes without saying that pilots who take
off from the wrong runway made a mistake. It's certainly pilot error.
There's no question about that. But was their error a blatantly
irresponsible act? There's absolutely no evidence that it was.

Which brings up a good question... If the NTSB report does finally
confirm that it was in fact pilot error and if the pilot who is
current in the hospital survives, what are his likely career
consequences? Is it completely down the tubes or is there a chance
that he might still remain working as an ATP? I suspect that up until
he saw the fence, he was *positive* that he was on the right runway...
Of course, soon after seeing the fence, he comment was probably
something like, "Oh ****..."...

If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:

Grumman-581 wrote:


On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:50:23 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

Define "looking good". I think it goes without saying that pilots who take
off from the wrong runway made a mistake. It's certainly pilot error.
There's no question about that. But was their error a blatantly
irresponsible act? There's absolutely no evidence that it was.

Which brings up a good question... If the NTSB report does finally
confirm that it was in fact pilot error and if the pilot who is
current in the hospital survives, what are his likely career
consequences? Is it completely down the tubes or is there a chance
that he might still remain working as an ATP? I suspect that up until
he saw the fence, he was *positive* that he was on the right runway...
Of course, soon after seeing the fence, he comment was probably
something like, "Oh ****..."...


If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

Why do you say that not yet knowing all of the details? If you decide
you won't fly with any pilot who has made a mistake, then you won't be
flying.

Matt

Ron Lee wrote:
If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.



You think he will repeat the mistake, assuming there was one? It must be nice
to be so perfect.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:
If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.


You think he will repeat the mistake, assuming there was one? It must be nice
to be so perfect.

Thank you. We shall see what the FAA does with his license. I choose
not to fly with someone who makes such a deadly mistake. Whether he
repeats that one again or not is irrelevant.

Ron Lee

"Ron Lee" wrote in message

If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

... I choose
not to fly with someone who makes such a deadly mistake.

Oh, God! Can the self-righteous blather, please!! What are you going to
do? Every time you book a flight, ask to see the crew's flight record? Get
names and socials so you can do your own internet research? Crap! You're
not going to do jack! Its all talk. Fact is, you aren't going to choose or
not choose. When you plan a trip you get on the plane like everyone else,
and you don't have any freakin' idea who's flying the plane. You think
they're all firm-jawed, steely-eyed war heroes? Guess again, Kemosabe!
Ever heard the advice about never visiting the kitchen at your favorite
restaurant? Well, the same applies to your favorite airline, too. They're
humans, just like us all, with all the warts and bumps that go with it.
Remember a few years ago when there was all the talk about arming cockpit
crews? Why do you think so many pilots were opposed to the idea? Because
they know their friends! That's why! "Let me know so I can avoid that
airline" -- what a crock!

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
. ..

"Ron Lee" wrote in message

If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

... I choose
not to fly with someone who makes such a deadly mistake.

Oh, God! Can the self-righteous blather, please!! What are you going to
do? Every time you book a flight, ask to see the crew's flight record?
Get
names and socials so you can do your own internet research? Crap! You're
not going to do jack! Its all talk. Fact is, you aren't going to choose
or
not choose.

A little of the co-pilot's background:


Survivor in coma; called 'a fighter'
DOCTORS AT UK ARE CONSIDERING AMPUTATION
By Steve Lannen
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
The lone survivor of Sunday's Comair crash clung to life last night.

James M. Polehinke, the co-pilot pulled from the burning jet's cockpit and
last night confirmed by officials to be at the controls, was in a coma and
on life support yesterday. Doctors were considering amputating one of his
legs, family friends said.

Officials at the University of Kentucky's Chandler Medical Center said
Polehinke remained in critical condition last night.

Friends and neighbors in southern Florida described Polehinke, 44, as a
strong man with a faith in God and a fighting spirit to match.

"Jimmy is in bad shape up there. He's in a coma," said longtime friend
Antonio Cruz of Miami. "But he's a religious person and a very good man. We
are all praying he will come through this."

Lexington police officer Bryan Jared pulled Polehinke from the burning plane
minutes after it crashed in a field off Versailles Road. At a news
conference yesterday afternoon, Jared said he hoped Polehinke "will be
returned back to his family."

Polehinke also suffered a broken rib and pelvis as well as internal
bleeding, friends said.

This is not the first time Polehinke has had a near-death experience.

His wife, Ida, shot him in the abdomen with a 9mm semi-automatic handgun in
1999. When police arrived at the home in Margate, Fla., they found Polehinke
lying in his blood on the kitchen floor.

Polehinke said the shooting was an accident. His wife told police she shot
Polehinke because she was in "fear" for her life after her husband
threatened to kill her during an argument, according to a police report.
Polehinke recovered from the shooting and declined to speak about it or
press charges.

The couple have no children, but four dogs.

Polehinke graduated from high school in Long Island, N.Y., and always wanted
to fly, Cruz said.

"He could play the saxophone so beautifully," Cruz said. "But he always
wanted to be a pilot. That was his lifetime dream."

Hospital spokesmen said Polehinke's family members who'd flown in declined
interview requests yesterday.

Several months ago, Polehinke suffered another setback.

"He had some type of injury to his knees," said David Norris, a neighbor.
"And he had to do physical therapy and brought himself back from that ...
and he could fly again. And now this has happened. ... So who knows, but
definitely he's a fighter."

Ron Lee wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:
If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

You think he will repeat the mistake, assuming there was one? It must be nice
to be so perfect.

Thank you. We shall see what the FAA does with his license. I choose
not to fly with someone who makes such a deadly mistake. Whether he
repeats that one again or not is irrelevant.

Ron Lee

709 ride and ok to fly again.

Ron Lee wrote:

If he still flies let me know so I can avoid that airline. Or at
least any plane he is piloting.

Ron Lee


How about we at least wait until we know he will survive his injuries
before we start trying to get him fired or take his license away?

Not too much to ask is it?

My educated guess tells me that he's prolly got massive burns. If he
survives the next 2 weeks then maybe he will be out of the woods.

Dave