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#1
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Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is secondary at jet speeds. Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that is what really happened. Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc... And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course. Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway, anyway... Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...) Kirk 66 |
#2
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kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#3
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The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots. Mike Schumann "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03... kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#4
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Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for soaring?
"Mike Schumann" wrote in message nk.net... The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic that is approaching at 200-300 knots. Mike Schumann "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03... kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#5
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Let me rephrase that; It is very difficult to see converging traffic
approaching at 100 - 200 knots. Mike Schumann "SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom wrote in message ... Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for soaring? "Mike Schumann" wrote in message nk.net... The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic that is approaching at 200-300 knots. Mike Schumann "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03... kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#6
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The jet stalls if it goes slower?
"Mike Schumann" wrote in message ink.net... Let me rephrase that; It is very difficult to see converging traffic approaching at 100 - 200 knots. Mike Schumann "SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom wrote in message ... Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for soaring? "Mike Schumann" wrote in message nk.net... The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic that is approaching at 200-300 knots. Mike Schumann "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03... kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#7
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We know how to recognize a thermaling glider from far off. But the glider
can disappear during two parts of the circle even when we know where to look. And the jet jock probably does not know what to look for or to understand the significance of what (s)he sees. A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or more. Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds? Remember to increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above the IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance. -- Hartley Falbaum DG800B "KF" USA "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03... kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until we know the facts for sure. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#8
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HL Falbaum wrote:
We know how to recognize a thermaling glider from far off. But the glider can disappear during two parts of the circle even when we know where to look. And the jet jock probably does not know what to look for or to understand the significance of what (s)he sees. A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or more. Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds? Remember to increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above the IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance. Yes, and even worse, the glider goes from a tiny speck to not very big in the same distance. It's a tough situation for see-and-avoid. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#9
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And isn't this point the reason one might question the prudence of flying so
fast in such an area? What are the responsibilities of the jet pilot? If the pilot must yeild to the glider, isn't the jet pilot being irresponsible if she flies at a speed that allows her no opportunity to yeild? "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message news:qDjJg.3232$XD1.570@trnddc01... HL Falbaum wrote: A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or more. Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds? Remember to increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above the IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance. Yes, and even worse, the glider goes from a tiny speck to not very big in the same distance. It's a tough situation for see-and-avoid. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#10
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Must be nice to walk on water!
kirk.stant wrote: Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air to see from another aircraft approaching. So much for professional pilots looking out the window. If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you! In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is secondary at jet speeds. Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that is what really happened. Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc... And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course. Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway, anyway... Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...) Kirk 66 |
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