Glider Crash - Minden?

Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is
secondary at jet speeds.

Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the
pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the
crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that
is what really happened.

Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc...
And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course.

Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway,
anyway...

Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...)

Kirk
66

kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for soaring?

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Let me rephrase that; It is very difficult to see converging traffic
approaching at 100 - 200 knots.

Mike Schumann

"SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom wrote in message
...
Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for
soaring?

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial
as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point,
until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

The jet stalls if it goes slower?

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
Let me rephrase that; It is very difficult to see converging traffic
approaching at 100 - 200 knots.

Mike Schumann

"SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom wrote in message
...
Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for
soaring?

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging
traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the
air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there
is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial
as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point,
until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

We know how to recognize a thermaling glider from far off. But the glider
can disappear during two parts of the circle even when we know where to
look. And the jet jock probably does not know what to look for or to
understand the significance of what (s)he sees.

A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or more.
Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds? Remember to
increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above the
IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance.

--
Hartley Falbaum
DG800B "KF" USA


"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.


A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

HL Falbaum wrote:
We know how to recognize a thermaling glider from far off. But the glider
can disappear during two parts of the circle even when we know where to
look. And the jet jock probably does not know what to look for or to
understand the significance of what (s)he sees.

A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or more.
Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds? Remember to
increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above the
IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance.

Yes, and even worse, the glider goes from a tiny speck to not very big
in the same distance. It's a tough situation for see-and-avoid.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

And isn't this point the reason one might question the prudence of flying so
fast in such an area?
What are the responsibilities of the jet pilot? If the pilot must yeild to
the glider, isn't the jet pilot being irresponsible if she flies at a speed
that allows her no opportunity to yeild?

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:qDjJg.3232$XD1.570@trnddc01...
HL Falbaum wrote:
A thermalling glider has a moving blind spot that may be 15 seconds or
more.
Not much-but how much distance can a bizjet cover in 15 seconds?
Remember to
increase the TAS (and thus GS) by 2% per thousand feet over and above
the
IAS.---The jet can go from a speck to very big in that distance.

Yes, and even worse, the glider goes from a tiny speck to not very big
in the same distance. It's a tough situation for see-and-avoid.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Must be nice to walk on water!

kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is
secondary at jet speeds.

Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the
pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the
crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that
is what really happened.

Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc...
And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course.

Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway,
anyway...

Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...)

Kirk
66