No more "Left Downwind"?

It just goes to show the FAA doesn't always know or teach safety. At
several airports here in the NW there is parachute jumping and these
guys use the other side for downwind. So do helicopters.

If the FAA were ACTUALLY interested in safety they would lobby for more
frequencies to be opened up for unicom. Their story that there aren't
enough frequencies to go around is just pure nonsense.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG


Jay Honeck wrote:
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I managed five landings without rolling past the numbers with calm air the
other day. Making really short AND smooth landings AND hitting the exact
aimpoint has proved elusive. I can usually accomplish any two but not all
three. It gives me additional respect for the pilots demoing Helios at OSH.
We have had lots of fires in central ID where most of the more challenging
airstrips are so I haven't been to any of the short ones since June. I was
climbing in the Andes early in the year and then made an attempt on the
North side of Everest in the spring. I reached 25,000' without O2 and then
bailed for a variety of reasons.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree with your point of view. "Left" adds a lot of information to the
call. My personal peeve is pilots "taking the active" at uncontrolled
airports. Which runway is active? I have heard this on calm days at
backcountry airstrips where the pilot was the first to take off that
day..

Mike
MU-2

Hey, Mike -- how's things with the Helio? Spend the summer landing on
postage-stamp gravel bars?

Haven't seen you post here in a long while -- glad you're back!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 08:49:08 -0500, Emily
wrote:
The above is why I avoid small uncontrolled airports on the weekends.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to actually go someplace that was actually
*friendly*, would we? snicker

Of course, traffic at some uncontrolled airports look like film footage from
"The Batter of Britain". :~)

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 08:49:08 -0500, Emily
wrote:
The above is why I avoid small uncontrolled airports on the weekends.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to actually go someplace that was actually
*friendly*, would we? snicker

Of course, traffic at some uncontrolled airports look like film footage
from "The Batter of Britain". :~)

[Dadgummit!] "BATTLE".

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:

"Jeff--is that you?"

"Yeah, it's me."

"How ya doing?"

"Okay, I guess."

(Heard on a holiday weekend.)

FWIW, I've only heard stuff like that on dead quiet frequencies. And
when I do? Who cares?

well, with the number of airports on one frequency in the northeast US,
there
really isn't anything like dead quiet during VFR days.

Come out west, young man!

Does a control tower always mean class D (or better)?
No.

Does class D always mean a control tower?
No.

Is the D equivalent to a "surface area"?
No.

Ok. I checked the AIM. A "surface area" is the airspace contained by
the lateral boundries of B, C, D, or E airspace designated for an
airport tha begins at the surface and extends upwards.

Indefinately? To outer space? To the limit of that class airspace?

Special VFR operations are conducted within a class B, C, D, or E
surface area. Class E airspace is controlled airspace that is not A, B,
C, or D.

So, if a class D surrounding an airport is overlain by class E, it seems
I should be able to get a special VFR clearance up to 18000 feet (where
class A generally begins). No?

When would an operating control tower not induce class D (or better)
airspace? When would a class D airspace not have a control tower? They
are usually correlated, but I seem to remember that they are not
necessarily correlated.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

kontiki wrote:
Emily wrote:

So you'd rather assume everyone is familiar instead of including ONE
extra word and making sure? Very, very dangerous.

Oh please... because someone doesn't say "left" before 'downwind' the
danger level drastically increases? I don't think think so. If you want
to say it fine but I do not think its necessary most of the time.

That's just my $.02

Ok, keep assuming most pilots know what they are doing. But please let
me know which airport you fly out of.

Grumman-581 wrote:
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 08:49:08 -0500, Emily
wrote:
The above is why I avoid small uncontrolled airports on the weekends.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to actually go someplace that was actually
*friendly*, would we? snicker

ADS is pretty damn friendly, and the busyness keeps away a lot of idiots.

In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:

well, with the number of airports on one frequency in the northeast US,
there
really isn't anything like dead quiet during VFR days.

Come out west, young man!

family commitments.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Stefan wrote:
Grumman-581 schrieb:

I hate it when I see these students pull out on the
numbers and just sit there... Don't know what they're doing... Are
they fiddling with maps or have they just forgotten where the throttle
is?

Maybe they are doing a last check of the runway alignement?

Stefan
Or making sure they are on the right runway...