No more "Left Downwind"?

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Depends on the length of the runway. And on the student's experience.


It depends on neither.

Steven P. McNicoll schrieb:

Depends on the length of the runway. And on the student's experience.

It depends on neither.

Yes it does.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Yes it does.


How so?

Steven P. McNicoll schrieb:

Yes it does.

How so?

Why not?

On 2 Sep 2006 19:37:27 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
. com:


Thanks. Current copies of AIM are a little difficult to come by here in
the Philippines.

Of course, the on-line versions of AIM and FARs are the only truly
current versions, as they are updated as soon as changes are made.

"Stefan" wrote in message
.. .

Why not?


Exactly.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...

Well, what non-identical thing would qualify (in this context) as "the
same thing"?


You'll have to tell me. What was the point of your response to my
statement?



Got that. Does a control tower always mean class D (or better)?


No.



Does class D always mean a control tower?


No.



The same as the purpose of SVFR in a surface area.


The purpose of SVFR in a surface area is usually to get in or out of an
airport within it when it cannot be done under basic VFR. Please explain
how that can be done while remaining above the ceiling of the Class D
airspace.



One reason would be
to find VFR above a broken layer. It would of course require positive
control of the airspace, which is probably not available above the D.


What do you do if you don't find it?



Is the D equivalent to a "surface area"?


A surface area is the airspace contained by the lateral boundary of
controlled airspace designated for an airport that begins at the surface and
extends upward. In the US, they come in Class B, C, D, and Class E flavors.

"Emily" wrote:

I've just had bad experiences at uncontrolled fields. Might be a Indiana
thing, but they sure seem to attract a lot of idiots.

Indeed.

I'm proud to be a pilot; I reckon it is a skill that takes some special
competence to acquire and maintain. But hearing and seeing how some of the
goobers operate airplanes can sure take some of that special shine off the
certificate.

And no, it's not just an Indiana thing. I'll put Alabama goobers up against
any you've got.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and
now-specifically prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded
unicom frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that
everyone knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my
experience, naive.

What do you guys think?

At one of the uncontrolled airports I use helos regularly fly the pattern
opposite the fixed wing traffic. Also, bizjets do most anything they want.
When I'm in the pattern, I really appreciate knowing which way to look
without having to guess or hunt. There are better things to concentratate
on when preparing to land. Apparently, the FAA's "verbal efficiency
experts" are running out of things to do.

Neil

We're talking about useless information, not redundancy, even though I
suppose that's a form of useless information.

We're talking about "left" or "right". This is not useless information.
It is extremely useful information. The assumption being made (by the
FAA) is that other pilots will already have that information, making it
redundant. I claim many pilots =don't= have the information, and thus
the redundancy is useful too.

I do not consider "left" or "right" to be noise words in this context.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.