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#1
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![]() "Private" wrote in message news:n76Lg.516413$IK3.107547@pd7tw1no... "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... In the end, the point isn't what I like, or what you like -- it's what the employer likes. If the FAA decides that it wants you to wear polka dot clown suits every day, so be it. I will wear whatever my employer wishes, provided they also provide it. In that case you quite likely would find yourself pursuing other opportunities. Happy landings. |
#2
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![]() "Dave Stadt" wrote in message om... "Private" wrote in message news:n76Lg.516413$IK3.107547@pd7tw1no... "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... In the end, the point isn't what I like, or what you like -- it's what the employer likes. If the FAA decides that it wants you to wear polka dot clown suits every day, so be it. I will wear whatever my employer wishes, provided they also provide it. In that case you quite likely would find yourself pursuing other opportunities. I require my project managers to wear slacks and at least a "golf" type shirt when meeting clients/contractors in their offices. When entertaining them in a restaurant, for example, a suit/sport coat and tie are mandatory. I haven't had to buy anyone a suit yet, and I doubt I ever will. |
#3
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![]() "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... "Dave Stadt" wrote in message om... "Private" wrote in message news:n76Lg.516413$IK3.107547@pd7tw1no... "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... In the end, the point isn't what I like, or what you like -- it's what the employer likes. If the FAA decides that it wants you to wear polka dot clown suits every day, so be it. I will wear whatever my employer wishes, provided they also provide it. In that case you quite likely would find yourself pursuing other opportunities. I require my project managers to wear slacks and at least a "golf" type shirt when meeting clients/contractors in their offices. When entertaining them in a restaurant, for example, a suit/sport coat and tie are mandatory. I haven't had to buy anyone a suit yet, and I doubt I ever will. There are laws that determine minimum acceptable dress in public places. For many and varied purposes many employers choose to exceed these minimum requirements. Military, police and other organizations have many obvious needs for identification and public image. Many other workplaces have demands for specialized dress due to health and safety reasons. The costs for this special dress are properly those of the enterprise that requires them and because of this IMHE most employers are required to provide safety equipment like high vis coveralls and hard hats and gloves. Because these expenses are deductible they represent a LOWER cost to the employer than requiring the employee to provide these items and pay for them in after tax dollars. The employer usually sees this an opportunity to improve their public image by putting their company name and image on these safety items. Many employers provide allowances to cover the cost of personal safety footwear that is not returned to the employer at the end of a job. Many employers discover that their net costs go down due to lowered injury rates and costs and the increased quality of their image is easy to justify as perhaps the cheapest advertising they will ever buy. The case can and is usually made that flip flops are a safety issue. Similarly, cut offs or clothing that has wear holes or tears is also either a health or safety issue due to flammability or sun exposure or that it may cause damage to the employers equipment. What you wear under the company coveralls is seldom a concern of the employer. Similarly rings and jewelry can usually be considered safety issues. The bottom line is that this is a matter that can normally be resolved by reference to legislation or cooperation in good faith between employer and employee. Most employees recognize that what is good for the employer is usually also in their own best interest. The real problem arises when the clothing has religious significance and this is a real minefield where the employee may have RIGHTS.that make the employers wishes unlawful or discriminatory. We have not even mentioned the possibility of free speech issues created by t shirts with inappropriate messages. Most employers are REQUIRED to provide and require the use of needed safety and health items. An employer has great latitude and can probably justify and require the use of supplied uniforms and safety equipment on safety or health grounds and they usually find that the cost of company coveralls or a company golf shirt to be a much smaller cost than trying to demand employees purchase approved clothing. IMHO disputes that arise from appearance issues are more likely due to a breakdown in relations in some other area and that the inappropriate clothing is more of a symptom than a problem issue to be treated in isolation. The smart employer avoids a HR ****ing contest as they are seldom productive or helpful in the long term. Just my .02 |
#4
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 07:10:29 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote: "Dave Stadt" wrote in message . com... "Private" wrote in message news:n76Lg.516413$IK3.107547@pd7tw1no... "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... In the end, the point isn't what I like, or what you like -- it's what the employer likes. If the FAA decides that it wants you to wear polka dot clown suits every day, so be it. I will wear whatever my employer wishes, provided they also provide it. In that case you quite likely would find yourself pursuing other opportunities. I require my project managers to wear slacks and at least a "golf" type shirt when meeting clients/contractors in their offices. When entertaining them in a restaurant, for example, a suit/sport coat and tie are mandatory. I haven't had to buy anyone a suit yet, and I doubt I ever will. I was a project manager in the CS department for a large multinational corporation. The only time I ever wore a suit was at my interview. After that I wore what I do now; slacks and a good shirt albeit I could wear fitted shirts then. I guess I could now too, but they'd have to let the middle out instead of taking it in.:-)) When they had a business lunch I wore the same thing and I had one rule. I either did business or ate lunch but never both at the same time. It's not good for the digestion. As long as the person takes proper care of their personal sanitation (you don't have to open the windows when they walk in a room of turn away when they smile) I don't care what they ware. The co-ops that were sent home for *almost* wearing a skirt too short should have been in our departments instead of the office areas. They probably would have still been sent home but it would have been because the guys weren't getting any work done. OTOH I view restaurants and hotels as a different world than computer geeks and Air Traffic Controllers. Even then you are only talking about neat, clean, and wearing the company logo. As far as name tags, since I was 21 I've never worked any where that didn't require a security badge. I also had a job where I did wear a work uniform if you want to call it that. I worked in industrial instrumentation for 26 years before going back to college and I was glad they not only provided the slacks and monogrammed shirts, coats, jackets, and even coveralls, but did the laundry. It was not exactly an environment that was friendly to what you wore. We all gladly put our personal clothes in our lockers. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#5
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The co-ops that
were sent home for *almost* wearing a skirt too short should have been in our departments instead of the office areas. If they "almost" wore a skirt, what =did= they wear? (or should we not go there? ![]() Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#6
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On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 01:40:46 GMT, Jose
wrote: The co-ops that were sent home for *almost* wearing a skirt too short should have been in our departments instead of the office areas. If they "almost" wore a skirt, what =did= they wear? (or should we not go there? ![]() So you really are an attentive reader:-)) Havent your seen one of those skirts that are low on top and high on the bottom? Jose Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#7
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Havent your seen one of those skirts that are low on top and high on
the bottom? With the coin slot? Yeah, I saw one in Pasadena. I guess that counts as "almost wearing" it. Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#8
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![]() "Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ... OTOH I view restaurants and hotels as a different world than computer geeks and Air Traffic Controllers. True. One group meets the public and another doesn't...normally. I do notice, in my thirty some years in the business/engineering something of a relationship from dress (call it comportment) to attitude, to I laugh when I hear the term "Software Engineer". Slop shop is what I've seen. There's casual, as appropriate, and there grunge...especially when adults are acting like spoiled brats. (See remarks about IT in Asia; those who thought IT was a company provided playground). |
#9
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I laugh when I hear the term "Software Engineer". Slop shop is what I've
seen. There is sloppy code and sloppy dress. Can you demonstrate a positive correlation between them? Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#10
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Yup.. These are the same people who wrote software that have us
clicking on "start" to turn off our computers,,, They comment how they make as much if not more the ATC workers. Money doesn't seem to weed out the bizarre so it must be the clothes they wear..... Ducking and running. Ben. Jose wrote: I laugh when I hear the term "Software Engineer". Slop shop is what I've seen. There is sloppy code and sloppy dress. Can you demonstrate a positive correlation between them? Jose -- There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
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