Are pilots really good or just lucky???

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:31:08 -0600, "Dan Luke"
wrote:


"Gerald Sylvester" wrote:
[snip]
So with my reasoning which certainly could be far off base, I guess my
question is, do you consider taking friends and family into
hard IMC that risky.

Solid IMC? sure and without hesitation.
Solid IMC and turbulence, the occasional embedded TS, or ice. Not a
chance.

I wouldn't take friends and family without
another
pilot on a flight down to minimums but I'm wondering if IFR in

It depends on two things. How much you fly and your comfort factor.
I find flying down to minimums little different than breaking out a
100 or 200 feet above minimums.

anything
but turbine powered aircraft is just outright stupid in a way.

It's too risky, IMO, to take my family into large areas of very low IMC
in my SE airplane. There just aren't enough "outs" available in case of
trouble. Neither will I depart with non-pilot pax aboard if the airport
is at or below minimums.

To me, IFR isn't all that different than VFR any more. If find that to
be true even in solid IMC. Where I draw the line with passengers is
turbulence.

I was lucky I had instructors who put me through a lot of IMC right
down to minimums so by the time I received my rating I felt competent
(and comfortable) to fly down to minimums and did. Actually my first
solo IFR flight was near minimums on both ends. Coming home it was
forecast to be below minimums for 3BS, but above for MBS which is just
11.3 miles and they have and ILS. Had to file FNT as the alternate,
but you can go any where.

Shot the VOR-A into 3BS and it was good, but 10 minutes earlier, or
later and it would have been doing the missed to the ILS at MBS and
having my wife pick me up. A couple miles either side of the approach
was well below minimums. When I called the airport in site, there was
a pause and APP asked what conditions looked like.

As far as passengers I really don't see it as any more risky than VFR,
but I won't take inexperienced passengers into solid IMC. I don't
like cleaning airplanes.

True, I fly over the mid west which is mostly flat land and if it's
minimums or above you can make a visual landing ... somewhere. OTOH
there are a *lot* of densely wooded areas.

I look at it this way. *If* I'm comfortable with the conditions I'll
take friends and family. If I find the "pucker factor" to be
uncomfortable, I not only won't take friends and family, I won't go
either.

My life is every bit as important to me as any one else's. My basic
rule, which is very easy to keep; I won't take some one else where I
wouldn't go. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:14:35 -0500, Roger wrote:

I was lucky I had instructors who put me through a lot of IMC right
down to minimums so by the time I received my rating I felt competent
(and comfortable) to fly down to minimums and did.

I really have to agree with Roger here!

I had two instructors in my IFR training. My first instructor took me on
days that were down to ILS minimums at HKS. My second instructor will not
fly in solid IMC for any period of time.

The second instructors opinion was that the purpose of an IFR ticket in a
single engine was to climb through the deck, get on top, and then decend
through the deck and land.

My first instructor on the other hand had me fly 2.4 in solid IMC doing
approaches and gave me the confidence to remain in IMC.

Talk about bringing up the confidence level, as when I did my first IFR
approaches after getting my ticket, it was 900 ceiling at HKS, and I felt
like I had a ton of time after breaking out to make the runway.

I had my first hold in solid IMC just three weeks ago, so again, because my
first instructor gave me the confidence, it really was no big deal. Just
rather boring going circles for 15 minutes.

So, depending on your instructor, probably will dictate your own confidence
level. After all, you practice down to minimums under the hood, it's no
different then in IMC.

As far as passengers, I took my wife up for her first trip. Granted, she
has been great throughout my flying experiences, but she was not
comfortable in solid IMC. It was smooth as silk, and we were in IMC for 40
minutes until I got on top at 8000 feet further down the road. She didn't
like the fact that she felt like a "speck" with no visual references. So,
each passenger will have their own tolerences.

To be honest, I wouldn't hesitate to take a passenger up in IMC, as if you
treat it as "normal", the passenger will not know any difference anyway.
It's when the pilot shows some concern, that the passenger will pick up on
that concern.

As far as comfort, turbulence has the most impact on passengers from my
experiences. Smooth air, and IMC really doesn't bother a passenger who
thinks it's perfectly normal.

Allen

In article , A Lieberman
writes:

As far as passengers, I took my wife up for her first trip. Granted, she
has been great throughout my flying experiences, but she was not
comfortable in solid IMC. It was smooth as silk, and we were in IMC for 40
minutes until I got on top at 8000 feet further down the road. She didn't
like the fact that she felt like a "speck" with no visual references. So,
each passenger will have their own tolerences.


Boy, you can say that again about "their own tolerences". The first time my
instructor took me into IMC I got a bit on edge and he said, "Just remember how
you felt today and understand how your wife is going to feel the first time."
Well in our first IMC flight I tried to brief the wife and when we entered the
clouds I kept asking how she felt and she kept saying "No problem, why are you
asking?" Now hit a few bumps and she is "Let's get this thing down - NOW" So
go figure.

Chuck