blue foam, pink foam, yellow foam?

On 27 Aug 2003 15:07:03 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:

In article , clare @ snyder.on .ca
writes:


I think this is more evidence of the dumbing of American and Canadian
industry. Most large companies have "dumbsized" to the point they have
no-one left on staff who knows anything of the company's history, or
about any products they made more than 10 years ago. ( get rid of all
the old guys - they cost too much in benefits - we can get young
blood, fresh out of college, with fresh ideas, for half as much) One
division has ;little or no knowlege what the other division does.



Which ultimately results in mistakes that were made and corrected years ago
will now be repeated.

Not when they no longer have the people left who know how to repair
their own propriatary systems. They may not last long enough to make
them again.

One big company developed some very large propritary systems. Then one
day they discovered that they had let go everyone who knew how to fix
and maintain them. It was to the point where oursourcing wouldn't
work as it'd take many months for the outside help to even learn those
systems.

I know the players:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)



Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

In article , Roger Halstead
writes:


Not when they no longer have the people left who know how to repair
their own propriatary systems. They may not last long enough to make
them again.

One big company developed some very large propritary systems. Then one
day they discovered that they had let go everyone who knew how to fix
and maintain them. It was to the point where oursourcing wouldn't
work as it'd take many months for the outside help to even learn those
systems.

I know the players:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


I was let go the first of January along with all other contractors at the
company I was working with. The primary system used for company operations was
being entirely maintained by contractors. The only people who knew anything
about the internals of the system are now gone and they don't have anybody left
who knows any of it. Especially the base software (Entera) that was used as
the framework for the 3-tier system. It is going to cost them 20 million to
replace it and they be forced to do so since they can't maintain it any longer.


REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.

Sounds like the same story but different company.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On 28 Aug 2003 14:10:04 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:


REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.

Sounds like the same story but different company.


A little bit like that old TV show -" X# of people in the city of New
York, and each has a story"

Devide the number of publicly traded companies with more than 20
employees by half, and you're getting close to the number of stories
that will be told over the next 5 years or so.
You now the old expression "same S---, different pile?"

The main cause of the demise of American companies (particularly
manufacturing) is NOT offshore competition, it is gross mismanagement.
The mismanagement makes them vulnerable to the competition.

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:54:46 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:

On 28 Aug 2003 14:10:04 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:


REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.

Sounds like the same story but different company.


A little bit like that old TV show -" X# of people in the city of New
York, and each has a story"

Devide the number of publicly traded companies with more than 20
employees by half, and you're getting close to the number of stories
that will be told over the next 5 years or so.
You now the old expression "same S---, different pile?"

The main cause of the demise of American companies (particularly
manufacturing) is NOT offshore competition, it is gross mismanagement.
The mismanagement makes them vulnerable to the competition.

And much higher efficiency from the ones with management.

Production is up about 10% since 1997 while jobs are down by 15%.
according to the stats released by the federal reserve.

However as we've seen in some instances the payback is on the way for
those who took the short term gains from down sizing a bit too
seriously at the expense of long term gains.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

However as we've seen in some instances the payback is on the way for
those who took the short term gains from down sizing a bit too
seriously at the expense of long term gains.

Unfortunately, the chickens have not yet come home to roost. There
was a study released this week on CEO pay at the layoff kings.
Searched news.google for "CEO pay layoff" and found this from
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine..._ceopay26.html


=======quoted news article==========
....new report from the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a
Fair Economy. Their 10th annual Labor Day report finds that:

Average CEO pay rose 44 percent in 2002 at the 50 firms with the most
layoffs during the 2001 recession, even though CEO pay overall was up
just 6 percent in Business Week's 53rd annual executive-pay survey.

The typical CEO made $3.7 million last year compared with $5.1 million
for layoff leaders.

Boeing Co. Chairman and Chief Executive Phil Condit was paid $3.9
million in 2002, even as the airline industry suffered through the
second year of the worst downturn in commercial aviation history with
Boeing announcing cuts of more than 35,000 jobs since the downturn
began.

PC maker Hewlett-Packard had 25,700 announced layoffs in 2001 at the
tech contraction's height and a 2002 pay package totaling $4.1 million
for chief executive officer Carly Fiorina.

They weren't the highest-paid, however.

Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.

Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
11,300.

Top executives pocketed an average $5.9 million compensation package
in 2002 at the 30 companies with the largest deficits in pension plans
-- collectively totaling $131 billion at the end of 2002, based on UBS
Securities pension-underfunding tallies.

Those paychecks were 59 percent higher than the average $3.7 million
paid to CEOs at Business Week's 365 largest companies.

General Motors, which led the problem pension list, paid $6.2 million
compensation to CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. in 2002, based on
Securities and Exchange Commission filings. GM has since covered its
pension shortfall by floating $17 billion in corporate bonds, which
eventually must be redeemed.

==========end quoted article============

"Corrie" wrote
Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.

Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
11,300.

So he made close to $6,300 for each person he laid off? Amazing. Sickening,
but amazing.

I'd like to say that corporation that take a bottom line approach will get
what they deserve.
Unfortunately, corporations aren't people, and the people who are hurt are
the workers, their families, and the entire economy due to cascade effects.

It used to be that the pay ratio of the lowest paid worker to the highest
paid member of the board was 20 to 1.
Frankly, I think anything above that is criminal. Even if I were offered the
20+ level, I couldn't rationalize it or accept it with a clear conscience. I
guess scruples will keep me from heading a major corporation in the
forseeable future.

Eric

"Eric Miller" wrote in message et...
"Corrie" wrote
Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.

Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
11,300.

So he made close to $6,300 for each person he laid off? Amazing. Sickening,
but amazing.

I'd like to say that corporation that take a bottom line approach will get
what they deserve.

Makes you want to belive in karma, or something like it, eh? ;-)

Unfortunately, corporations aren't people, and the people who are hurt are
the workers, their families, and the entire economy due to cascade effects.

All too true.

It used to be that the pay ratio of the lowest paid worker to the highest
paid member of the board was 20 to 1.
Frankly, I think anything above that is criminal. Even if I were offered the
20+ level, I couldn't rationalize it or accept it with a clear conscience. I
guess scruples will keep me from heading a major corporation in the
forseeable future.

I was about to say, "yer a better man that I am, Gunga Din!" because
being human, I can rationalize damn near anything. Then I stopped to
wonder - is this another one of those "my house is a blue duck"
statements that's safe to make because it's highly unlikely? WGDR

Corrie ;-^