![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Martin Eiler wrote: We should be commending the OLC committee for weeding out the renegade few who insist that they should be scored for flights that violated regulations. It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight that landed 1 minute after sunset. To avoid this penalty a pilot may have to give up soaring an hour early to be sure of getting home in time, or should he landout a minute from home to save the points. As has been pointed out landing shortly before sunset on a westerly runway can be hazardous. May I suggest that the end of soaring flight be determined by landing, engine start, airspace violation, or sunset time. Points earned before end of soaring flight should be scored as usual. Perhaps the same scrutiny should be applied to sunrise. I hear some ridge flights start quite early. Andy |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Andy wrote: It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight that landed 1 minute after sunset. Could you be talking about a flight that ended thirty one minutes after sunset? This would put it into the FAA definition of NIGHT flying. That is different than the FAR about aircraft lighting after sunset. I think we all can agree that there is some slack being provided for "marginal" violations to the OLC. There's always altimeter error and occasionally a race with the sun to get on the ground. In a sanctioned contest, errors such as this are typically punished quite brutally on the scoresheet. As I said in another response, it is up to ALL of us to conduct ourselves in a sportsmanlike fashion. If there is any doubt about the propriety of posting a flight, then DON'T DO IT. In the western US it's very easy to get involved in a 10+ knot climb and suddenl realize that the altimeter has already passed 17,500' indicated. Sometimes, by the time one rolls out and presses on, it comes darned close to 18K. Then at the end of the day, detailed analysis with data from a nearby ground station slows you have busted 18K by 100'. I rationalize this on the OLC as a reasonable "glitch". But if I see a trace - mine or someone else's - that indicates still circling at 18K, I'll call it into question. Landing one minute after official sunset, especially if there's some evidence in the log of trying to get it on the ground is anothercase that I would probably not challenge. The whole point of what Doug is doing is not to remove the flights himself. He is asking the offender to do this, or to add a comment explaining the discrepancy. We should ALL follow his example, especially to our immediate fellow pilots. It may mean a worse club score, but is just the proper way to conduct a sporting event. We don't want to get into the mess of the Olympics or Tour de France with their various doping and possible cheating scandals. -Tom |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]() 5Z wrote: Could you be talking about a flight that ended thirty one minutes after sunset? This would put it into the FAA definition of NIGHT flying. That is different than the FAR about aircraft lighting after sunset. No, I meant 1 minute after sunset, a violation of 91.207 a) 1 Andy |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Andy wrote: Martin Eiler wrote: We should be commending the OLC committee for weeding out the renegade few who insist that they should be scored for flights that violated regulations. It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight that landed 1 minute after sunset. To avoid this penalty a pilot may have to give up soaring an hour early to be sure of getting home in time, or should he landout a minute from home to save the points. Andy So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight? There was a great article in Soaring maybe a year ago by Brian Collins about a 1000K flight. One of the key elements of his flight planning involved getting back on the ground before sunset. Clearly, he could have gone on to rack up at least another 100K or 200K by ignoring the FARs, but he chose to make the FARs a key part of his decision making. So, to answer your question, "Yes, a pilot should give up soaring early to be sure of getting home in time." Does that have to be "an hour early"? No. If you fly it the same way you would typically fly a MAT (i.e. leave a few close in turnpoints for the end of the day), there's no reason to give up that much of the flyable day. Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Papa3 wrote: So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight? No that's not what I proposed. If scored soaring flight ends at sunset the rule is no different for a flight with a sunrise launch than one that starts 10 minutes before sunset. Andy |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Andy wrote:
Papa3 wrote: So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight? No that's not what I proposed. If scored soaring flight ends at sunset the rule is no different for a flight with a sunrise launch than one that starts 10 minutes before sunset. Checking for that would make a lot of sense. The pilots I know attempting records and long flights in wave make very sure they take off after sunrise, so I'm sure they would approve. -- Note: email address new as of 9/4/2006 Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA "Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Excellent point. Brian's article actually appeared in the February 2006
issue of Soaring. It describes a long ridge flight last fall. All througout the description of his filght planning and execution he is working backwards from a finish before sunset. Papa3 wrote: snip There was a great article in Soaring maybe a year ago by Brian Collins about a 1000K flight. One of the key elements of his flight planning involved getting back on the ground before sunset. Clearly, he could have gone on to rack up at least another 100K or 200K by ignoring the FARs, but he chose to make the FARs a key part of his decision making. So, to answer your question, "Yes, a pilot should give up soaring early to be sure of getting home in time." Does that have to be "an hour early"? No. If you fly it the same way you would typically fly a MAT (i.e. leave a few close in turnpoints for the end of the day), there's no reason to give up that much of the flyable day. Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
For Keith Willshaw... | robert arndt | Military Aviation | 253 | July 6th 04 05:18 AM |
S-TEC 60-2 audio warning | Julian Scarfe | Owning | 7 | March 1st 04 08:11 PM |