End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

Martin Eiler wrote:

We should be commending the OLC committee for
weeding out the renegade few who insist that they
should be scored for flights that violated regulations.


It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight
that landed 1 minute after sunset. To avoid this penalty a pilot may
have to give up soaring an hour early to be sure of getting home in
time, or should he landout a minute from home to save the points.

As has been pointed out landing shortly before sunset on a westerly
runway can be hazardous.

May I suggest that the end of soaring flight be determined by landing,
engine start, airspace violation, or sunset time. Points earned before
end of soaring flight should be scored as usual.

Perhaps the same scrutiny should be applied to sunrise. I hear some
ridge flights start quite early.


Andy

Andy wrote:
It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight
that landed 1 minute after sunset.

Could you be talking about a flight that ended thirty one minutes after
sunset? This would put it into the FAA definition of NIGHT flying.
That is different than the FAR about aircraft lighting after sunset.

I think we all can agree that there is some slack being provided for
"marginal" violations to the OLC. There's always altimeter error and
occasionally a race with the sun to get on the ground. In a sanctioned
contest, errors such as this are typically punished quite brutally on
the scoresheet.

As I said in another response, it is up to ALL of us to conduct
ourselves in a sportsmanlike fashion. If there is any doubt about the
propriety of posting a flight, then DON'T DO IT.

In the western US it's very easy to get involved in a 10+ knot climb
and suddenl realize that the altimeter has already passed 17,500'
indicated. Sometimes, by the time one rolls out and presses on, it
comes darned close to 18K. Then at the end of the day, detailed
analysis with data from a nearby ground station slows you have busted
18K by 100'. I rationalize this on the OLC as a reasonable "glitch".
But if I see a trace - mine or someone else's - that indicates still
circling at 18K, I'll call it into question.

Landing one minute after official sunset, especially if there's some
evidence in the log of trying to get it on the ground is anothercase
that I would probably not challenge.

The whole point of what Doug is doing is not to remove the flights
himself. He is asking the offender to do this, or to add a comment
explaining the discrepancy. We should ALL follow his example,
especially to our immediate fellow pilots. It may mean a worse club
score, but is just the proper way to conduct a sporting event. We
don't want to get into the mess of the Olympics or Tour de France with
their various doping and possible cheating scandals.

-Tom

5Z wrote:

Could you be talking about a flight that ended thirty one minutes after
sunset? This would put it into the FAA definition of NIGHT flying.
That is different than the FAR about aircraft lighting after sunset.

No, I meant 1 minute after sunset, a violation of 91.207 a) 1


Andy

Andy wrote:
Martin Eiler wrote:

We should be commending the OLC committee for
weeding out the renegade few who insist that they
should be scored for flights that violated regulations.


It is an unreasonable penalty to completely eliminate a 10 hour flight
that landed 1 minute after sunset. To avoid this penalty a pilot may
have to give up soaring an hour early to be sure of getting home in
time, or should he landout a minute from home to save the points.



Andy

So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an
FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight?

There was a great article in Soaring maybe a year ago by Brian Collins
about a 1000K flight. One of the key elements of his flight planning
involved getting back on the ground before sunset. Clearly, he could
have gone on to rack up at least another 100K or 200K by ignoring the
FARs, but he chose to make the FARs a key part of his decision making.
So, to answer your question, "Yes, a pilot should give up soaring
early to be sure of getting home in time." Does that have to be
"an hour early"? No. If you fly it the same way you would typically
fly a MAT (i.e. leave a few close in turnpoints for the end of the
day), there's no reason to give up that much of the flyable day.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 P3

Papa3 wrote:

So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an
FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight?

No that's not what I proposed. If scored soaring flight ends at sunset
the rule is no different for a flight with a sunrise launch than one
that starts 10 minutes before sunset.

Andy

Andy wrote:
Papa3 wrote:
So, by that logic Andy, a really spectacular flight that violates an
FAR gets some additional leeway over a not-so-impressive flight?

No that's not what I proposed. If scored soaring flight ends at sunset
the rule is no different for a flight with a sunrise launch than one
that starts 10 minutes before sunset.

Checking for that would make a lot of sense. The pilots I know
attempting records and long flights in wave make very sure they take off
after sunrise, so I'm sure they would approve.


--
Note: email address new as of 9/4/2006
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Excellent point. Brian's article actually appeared in the February 2006
issue of Soaring. It describes a long ridge flight last fall. All
througout the description of his filght planning and execution he is
working backwards from a finish before sunset.

Papa3 wrote:
snip
There was a great article in Soaring maybe a year ago by Brian Collins
about a 1000K flight. One of the key elements of his flight planning
involved getting back on the ground before sunset. Clearly, he could
have gone on to rack up at least another 100K or 200K by ignoring the
FARs, but he chose to make the FARs a key part of his decision making.
So, to answer your question, "Yes, a pilot should give up soaring
early to be sure of getting home in time." Does that have to be
"an hour early"? No. If you fly it the same way you would typically
fly a MAT (i.e. leave a few close in turnpoints for the end of the
day), there's no reason to give up that much of the flyable day.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 P3