End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

588 wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:

...I would be in favor of an OLC rule that requires landing by sunset
to avoid giving an advantage to the few gliders with lights,
and to discourage pilots from adding lights.

How about a limit on span? No untoward advantage must accrue to those
who do simply because they can do.

I think the span situation is adequately handled with the handicapping
system, so I don't see any need for a span limit.


I have a 36 ah battery, so I could add lights without too much
trouble, but I think the OLC would be better if I had to land before
sunset.

The OLC will only be worse if it starts to supplement official
regulations with its own restrictions. As it is, we are all wound up
because some few don't believe we should conform to the rules that
already exist.

The OLC is a contest, which is not covered by official regulations. The
OLC does incorporate, by reference, the aviation rules of the various
nations, but it also has regulations such as the handicapping rules,
that are clearly not in a country's aviation rules. This is true of any
contest; in fact, our FAI contests have a quite few restrictions on how
one is to fly during the event.

I was very excited about OLC last year. This year has been one
frustration after another, personally and nationally -- but I still like
it, and I think we are making too much out of the difficulties.

The FAA is not going to change the rules for night flight in order to
allow the OLC to conform to Eric's or Jack's preferences.

Nor do they need to. The kind of soaring flight the OLC measures is the
purview of the OLC itself.

As long as
everybody plays by the same rules, whether lights or no lights, that's
all that matters.

The details of the rules also matter, because they affect the interest
in the OLC. If the flights were not handicapped, we'd still all be
playing by the same rules, but I don't think it would as popular.

If some do fly at night, we'll soon find out what can
be accomplished by doing so. If I don't succeed at gaining the highest
OLC point total simply because I don't fly at night, I'll just have to
live with it.

One of the values of OLC is that we can all see what is possible -- what
is being done -- in other regions, in other gliders, and by other
pilots, and compare this with our own accomplishments. It is a great
motivator, and learning takes place; more flying is done; and the
overall skill level increases, as does enjoyment.

I like this part of the OLC; however, allowing night flight (for
example) does shift the focus a bit from "contest" towards "flight trace
repository". I think the popularity of the OLC stems from both aspects,
and it's worth discussing how to improve both aspects. I don't believe
it's an "either/or" choice.

Should we mandate that one may not circle to the right in a thermal? I
don't see much difference between that and making other rules that would
limit some aspects of soaring simply because there are those who don't
want to do those things themselves.

We routinely limit some aspects of soaring in our regional and national
contests. Having limits is part of what makes it a contest. Picking the
right limits to meet the goals of the contest is the tough part, and
these limits have changed over the decades.

The OLC is right to require adherence to national flight regulations;
the SSA must conform to that aspect of OLC as part of its agreement with
the organizers and to fulfill its duty to its membership and to the
aviation system in the United States. The best methods may be debatable
but not the necessity. There is no alternative.

Amen.

--
Note: email address new as of 9/4/2006
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

588 wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:

...I would be in favor of an OLC rule that requires landing by
sunset to avoid giving an advantage to the few gliders with lights,
and to discourage pilots from adding lights.

How about a limit on span? No untoward advantage must accrue to those
who do simply because they can do.

I think span is reasonably compensated by the handicap factor. The fact
that OLC is handicapped is what makes it interesting. I have a 1979
glider with fixed gear, and I can still be competitive. So can an SGS
1-26. The handicap levels the playing field enough to make OLC all
inclusive. I think allowing night flying would give too much advantage
to newer motorgliders ordered with lights, and would put the vast
majority of the existing fleet without lights at a severe disadvantage.

"Doug Haluza" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think allowing night flying would give too much advantage
to newer motorgliders ordered with lights, and would put the vast
majority of the existing fleet without lights at a severe disadvantage.

This "I think" example pretty much sums up the rulemaking "process" on the
SSA-OLC. Despite the long existing OLC rule that clearly *allows* night
flight (if and as permitted by local regulations), we here can "I think" of
a new rule and start applying (or not applying) it when and where we see
fit.

Eric Greenwell wrote:

I have a 36 ah battery, so I could add lights without too much trouble,
but I think the OLC would be better if I had to land before sunset.


I propose a limit on battery capacity of 12 ah. And that includes the
9-volt in your EDS.

Marc Ramsey wrote:
There is a defined process for changing the Sporting Code, involving
public notifications, votes at more than one plenary session, discussion
amongst delegates, etc. This is intended to provide stability, such
that if one goes to the trouble of, say, adding position lights to their
glider, they don't have to worry that some people sitting around a table
three months later will arbitrarily change the rules on them. With
respect, I wish the same could be said of the SSA...

I don't see this as any kind of rules change. The SSA stated a postion
last year that it is unsportsmanlike to break FARs. The SSA will not
enforce these rules, but suggests we strive to police ourselves.

I am taking it on faith that Doug is not scanning logs for violations,
but is responding to individuals bringing particular flights to his
attention.

-Tom

Marc Ramsey wrote:


...they don't have to worry that some people sitting around a table
three months later will arbitrarily change the rules on them. With
respect, I wish the same could be said of the SSA.

The SSA hasn't changed the OLC rules. They have added a capability to
examine apparent rule breaking that did not previously exist in the OLC
-- a standard and capability not so different from the process in
contests -- and a standard any responsible organization must maintain.

Where's the beef?



Jack

588 wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:


...they don't have to worry that some people sitting around a table
three months later will arbitrarily change the rules on them. With
respect, I wish the same could be said of the SSA.

The SSA hasn't changed the OLC rules. They have added a capability to
examine apparent rule breaking that did not previously exist in the OLC
-- a standard and capability not so different from the process in
contests -- and a standard any responsible organization must maintain.

The contest standards are explicitly written into the contest rules, and
are changed via a somewhat transparent process on a known schedule. The
SSA-OLC standards are bit more murky, particularly when you consider
that the "SSA Position Concerning FAR Violations on Badge, Record, and
OLC Flights" is inconsistent with OLC "US Specific Rules", and both are
inconsistent with certain actions that were apparently taken.

Where's the beef?

This is usenet, who needs beef?

"Doug Haluza" wrote in message
ups.com...

Obviously, night cross country
in gliders is very dangerous, due to the possibility of an outlanding
in a dark field, so I hope we don't have to wait until someone dies to
address this.


I've flown my previous glider, a Stemme S10-VT, in wave at night. A most
beautiful and memorable flight. Fields? Dangerous? I stayed within easy
gliding distance of airports with pilot controlled lighting. The Stemme was
equipped with the required position and anit-collision (strobe) lights.

bumper

I agree that night flight withing gliding distance of a lighted airport
is not that dangerous(I would probably do it if I could). That is why I
commented specifically about night cross-country flight in gliders.
Night VFR in airplanes has been shown to be many times more dangerous
than Day VFR in the accident record. I would only expect the situation
to be worse without an engine running.

bumper wrote:
"Doug Haluza" wrote in message
ups.com...

Obviously, night cross country
in gliders is very dangerous, due to the possibility of an outlanding
in a dark field, so I hope we don't have to wait until someone dies to
address this.


I've flown my previous glider, a Stemme S10-VT, in wave at night. A most
beautiful and memorable flight. Fields? Dangerous? I stayed within easy
gliding distance of airports with pilot controlled lighting. The Stemme was
equipped with the required position and anit-collision (strobe) lights.

bumper

Doug Haluza wrote:
I agree that night flight withing gliding distance of a lighted airport
is not that dangerous(I would probably do it if I could). That is why I
commented specifically about night cross-country flight in gliders.
Night VFR in airplanes has been shown to be many times more dangerous
than Day VFR in the accident record. I would only expect the situation
to be worse without an engine running.

The vast majority of landings after legal sunset are the result of long
final glides that started before sunset. These are not "night
cross-country flight", except in the legal sense, and would likely have
aborted much earlier if there was doubt about reaching the destination
airport. Legally, they absolutely should be equipped with position
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few
places (Tonopah comes to mind) where it would be more dangerous to abort
the final glide at sunset, and try to find someplace else to land, than
it would be to just continue...

Marc