NATCA Going Down in Flames

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

I agree, that ATC is inherently a governmental function, but judging
from the FAA's past sluggish performance in implementing ATC upgrades,
it's going to take privatization to achieve state-of-the-art
technology required for the NAS of the 21st century. And
state-of-the-art technology (required by the airlines) is going to
cost a lot more than the current funding provides.


I see no reason to believe that privatization will improve on that.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:38:59 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

I agree, that ATC is inherently a governmental function, but judging
from the FAA's past sluggish performance in implementing ATC upgrades,
it's going to take privatization to achieve state-of-the-art
technology required for the NAS of the 21st century. And
state-of-the-art technology (required by the airlines) is going to
cost a lot more than the current funding provides.


I see no reason to believe that privatization will improve on that.


On what, swift modernization, or the increased cost of the future of
ATC?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

On what, swift modernization, or the increased cost of the future of
ATC?


Both.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:02:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

On what, swift modernization, or the increased cost of the future of
ATC?


Both.


Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

You may be correct about the ultimate cost, but initially the
contractor would have to propose something reasonably priced to win
the bidding competition.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than
STARS (which is being deployed now)?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:36:24 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
:

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than
STARS (which is being deployed now)?

Bob, I don't have a specific answer to your question, as I don't claim
to be familiar with STARS nor Boeing/LocMart ATC systems.

But, with the information available he
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5507ef e7687a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...c064f4 593ed8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...c48943 be68c0
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...a4edd7 c06ebd
You may find the answer.

Is STARS space-based?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than
STARS (which is being deployed now)?

Bob, I don't have a specific answer to your question, as I don't claim
to be familiar with STARS nor Boeing/LocMart ATC systems.

So why do you believe that Boeing and Locmart have already developed
more modern ATC systems than the FAA has?



Is STARS space-based?

No. STARS uses multiple radar feeds (the typical traditional long-range and
terminal radars that we all know and love). It can be upgraded with other
sensor feeds as they become available.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Here is a list of newer Air Traffic Control systems. I hope this is
helpful.

The state of the art for TRACONs and RAPCONS is STARS (Standalone TRACON
Automation Replacement System). The prime contractor for the STARS program
is Raytheon, and it is now being deployed to major TRACONS around the
country. (It is already online at the new Boston TRACON and major airports
like Philadelphia, etc). This program has been much delayed and reworked,
after numerous problems, such as ignoring controllers human interface
concerns (early data block windows covered up radar information behind
them) and controllers didn't like the standard QWERTY keyboards. (too easy
to learn?) for some reason. 10 years later, this is now the TRACON system
of the future.

ARTCCs have been upgraded as well. (Acronym?) I believe the prime
contractor is/was Lockheed Martin and it used a lot of Sun Microsystems
hardware. Even before the upgrades were underway, the ASD or 'Ollie"
screen came about just to replace the aging and failing green screens from
ARTS. The ASD was kind of a bootleg program that was more grassroutes than
officially sanctioned. .

DSR - (Display System Replacment) - replaces old ARTCC displays with new
Sony high resolution color displays. Superimposes NexRad weather on
displays, modern strip printers, etc. .

ATOP - (advanced technologies and oceanic procedures) Automates manual
oceanic airspace practices. Deployed at oceanic ARTCCs, such as New York,
Boston, Anchorage, Oakland. Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor and
calls it Ocean 21 .

HOCSR (Host and Oceanic Computer System Replacement). The host computers
(at the FAA command center across the street from Dulles airport in
Herndon) have had an upgrade program too, it is managed by Lockheed Martin:

ASDE-X (Airport Surface Detection Equipment - the X is the latest version)
is the next generation ground radar, used in airports with issues with
taxiing (usually in bad visibility). At these airports, pilots are asked
to leave Mode C on when on the ground. KPVD was one of the first airports
to get this, as a result of the near disaster when a US Airways flight was
repeatedly and angrily cleared for takeoff by a controller with an attitude
(pilot rejected) after a United jet got lost in fog and had reentered the
runway.

(D-BRITE ) FAA Digital Brite Radar Indicator Tower Equipment Program.
Newer version of BRITE screens, which provide satellite towers with a basic
radar screen for limited use. I believe this is going away.

Small Tower Radar Display (Lockheed Martin) For some airports that didn't
have D-BRITE.

STARS LITE (STARS Local Integrated Tower Equipment) Radar screens for
satellite towers.

ARTS IE Newer system for VFR towers that aren't connected to a TRACON.
Receive radar information from centers, using ARSR or ASR Radar data.

TARDIS (Terminal Automated Radar Display and Information System) This is
an interesting one. A sort of bootleg cheaper radar display for satellite
towers. It hasn't been certified and there are no plans to do so. The FAA
brass wasn't too pleased that TARDIS was spreading (too cheap, quick to be
implemented, and it worked!), but influential congress people were
demanding that it be deployed towers that didn't have funds to get another
radar display. Should be replaced by STARS LITE, which is certified.

ARTCCs have been upgraded as well. (Acronym?)

Air Route Traffic Control Centers

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

ARTCCs have been upgraded as well. (Acronym?)

Air Route Traffic Control Centers

Heh. I meant for the upgrades, not for ARTCC itself. I think I have
that one down but there are numerous pieces/blocks of ARTCC
modernization, and being government you need a lot of acronyms to handle
that.