NATCA Going Down in Flames

I'm not sniping at you, Brian, but your post gives me a junp-off point
for a rant:

Hey, its usenet, feel free :-)

Speaking as someone who was required to wear a jacket and tie from the
thrid grade through gradschool (well, except for 2 years in
highschool), I have to say I found it refreshing when the boomers
right behind me trashed a tradition that was clearly designed to
perpetuate stereotypes of "professionals" and "tradesmen."

I've been in both types of dress code jobs. Wearing a suit and tie as
a consultant when part of my job required going behind dusty computers
and ruining the tie for that day. I've also worked from home, where
sometimes I'd still be in my bathrobe at the end of the day.

I found that I didn't work as effectively in the bathrobe. I may be
more comfortable, but not necessarily towards my work.

If controllers worked in a windowsless room all by themselves I think
it would matter less to me. But they don't. They work in a facility
with other controllers. Right next to them. Peer professionals. By
dressing to a minimum standard they are showing that they are
professional. One of the reasons the military wears uniforms is to
instill that sense of unity and esprit de corps. There is no esprit de
corps with flip flops... well there was that summer as a lifeguard but
that was the uniform... and I digress.

So while dockers and a collared shirt may not be as regimented as a
uniform its still better in my opinion than a cavalier, anything goes
attitude.

As an aside, it may have been in the same article, but I read recently
that the other rule the FAA put in place that has the union up in arms
is "no naps" while on breaks... Oh, and they have to stay at the
facility.....

Demonstrating precisely how "professional" they consider their workers
to be.

Or demonstrating how professional the workers actually are BEING, in
that they were taking naps in the facility at a time they could be
called to duty at any moment. If they were too tired to stay awake,
they should have called in sick.

Maybe making them dress up a bit will stop the "we're just lounging
around" attitude. I know its easier to take naps in my shorts and flip
flops than it would be in a suit and tie.

I found that I didn't work as effectively in the bathrobe. I may be
more comfortable, but not necessarily towards my work.

Was it because of the bathrobe, or because of the close proximity of the
refrigerator, TV, internet, and three kids?

One of the reasons the military wears uniforms is to
instill that sense of unity and esprit de corps. There is no esprit de
corps with flip flops.

What kind of espirit de corps would improve ATC?

Or demonstrating how professional the workers actually are BEING, in
that they were taking naps in the facility at a time they could be
called to duty at any moment.

Airplane pilots take naps on duty too. They are fresher when called to
duty.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
Was it because of the bathrobe, or because of the close proximity of the
refrigerator, TV, internet, and three kids?

I've been doing the telecommuting thing since around '95 so I've got a
lot of experience with it. Getting dressed in the morning (just like I
would with any commute) improves my performance during the day. I get
more things done. With or without the fridge, Tv, internet, and 1
kid.

I don't turn on the TV when working form home. I have the internet,
but then I have the internet at an office to. Same with the fridge.
As to the kid.. thats why I have a dedicated room in my house that is
my office. She's not allowed in when I'm working. Just like if I was
at the office she wouldn't get past the badge readers or the guards.

What kind of espirit de corps would improve ATC?

Any kind. Workers who feel part of the same team should work better
than workers who don't. I would maintain that everybody operating to a
minimum standard would enhance that team. A person who cares about
their appearance will help with that sense of team.

Are you saying that ATC as an organization has no room for any
improvement?

Airplane pilots take naps on duty too. They are fresher when called to
duty.

But if the airline said they shouldn't as part of their operating
procedures you would agree that that would be ok right? Or do you
think the pilots should be able to set their own operating procedures
for their particular flight? To hell what their employers decide?

The FAA sets the standards in my opinion. And I don't think anything
outlined so far is excessive.

Getting dressed in the morning (just like I
would with any commute) improves my performance during the day. I get
more things done.

When you're dressed, you can go out without any additional doings. IN a
bathrobe, going to the store (for example) requires more doing, so it
might be put off. In that sense, I agree, one can be more productive
dressed than nude.

However, we're talking about shorts, not bathrobe. Do you find that,
WHEN you get dressed, that your performance improves with a higher
standard of dress (once you are above the standard required to go to the
store)? Do you work better in a tie?

Workers who feel part of the same team should work better
than workers who don't.

Agreed. With rules like this, do you think the controllers feel like
they're on the same team as the FAA (who is making the rules)?

I would maintain that everybody operating to a
minimum standard would enhance that team.

Yes, key word "operating". I maintain that shorts do not affect how one
controls traffic. I would allow that a captain's uniform as opposed
to shorts may help for a corporate pilot, who is interfacing with the
public (the executives taking the ride), but air traffic control does
not have this kind of interface with their charges.

Are you saying that ATC as an organization has no room for any
improvement?

No. I'm saying dress is probably not high on the list.

But if the airline said [pilots] shouldn't
[take naps] as part of their operating
procedures you would agree that that would be ok right?

I suspect it would not be a good rule, especially for long flights.

Or do you think the pilots should be able
to set their own operating procedures
for their particular flight?

I did not suggest this for ATC, why do you suggest that I suggest this
for pilots?

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
However, we're talking about shorts, not bathrobe. Do you find that,
WHEN you get dressed, that your performance improves with a higher
standard of dress (once you are above the standard required to go to the
store)? Do you work better in a tie?

I work more professionally. Personally, I find that when I'm working
with others that care about their appearance I find that we are more
productive. Professional is professional. Whether its in writing,
dress, mannerisms, or the voice on the radio.

And we aren't talking about a requirement for suit and tie. We're
talking about a dress code that (sometimes referred to as "business
casual") that probably 90% of the white-collar workforce uses. The
controllers want to be able to conform to the "beach bum" standard.
(Or at least their union does)

Agreed. With rules like this, do you think the controllers feel like
they're on the same team as the FAA (who is making the rules)?

I don't care if they think they are on the same team as the FAA. I
care if they think they are on the same team as their co-controllers.
FAA sets the standards as management. They should deal with it.

Yes, key word "operating". I maintain that shorts do not affect how one
controls traffic.

The FAA (who's setting the standards) disagrees. As do I.

No. I'm saying dress is probably not high on the list.

And I'm saying that even things down on the list can help improve
things that are higher on the list. Like say forcing people who can't
conform to a simple dress code (anti-authority) to leave the
organzation or change their ways and be more team like. You see the
poor controllers that can't wear shorts. I see anti-authority
behavior. Something I seem to remember reading about in the AIM.

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

I work more professionally. Personally, I find that when I'm working
with others that care about their appearance I find that we are more
productive. Professional is professional. Whether its in writing,
dress, mannerisms, or the voice on the radio.


What work do you do on the radio?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
What work do you do on the radio?

I don't. I was alluding to controllers.

I don't care if they think they are on the same team as the FAA. I
care if they think they are on the same team as their co-controllers.

Do you think they don't think they are on the same team as their
co-controllers? Why do you think that?

The FAA (who's setting the standards) disagrees. As do I.

I often disagree with the FAA. This would be no exception (though I'm
open to other opinions, especially from actual controllers, about the
working conditions there and how dress affects it)

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com,
"bdl" wrote:

Do you work better in a tie?

I work more professionally.

So naturally your experience must extrapolate to everyone else in
all other jobs...

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Bob Noel wrote:
In article .com,
"bdl" wrote:

Do you work better in a tie?

I work more professionally.

So naturally your experience must extrapolate to everyone else in
all other jobs...

Never said that. He was extrapolating his experience to me.