Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Marty Shapiro writes:

In the SF Bay area here are the web sites of two FBO's at PAO where
you can rent wet (fuel included):

http:\\www.shorelineflyingclub.com
http:\\www.wvfc.org

At Shoreline, the lowest rates are a hundred times higher than those
for a car (which you can rent by the day, not by the hour, for about
the same prices). Plus you have to factor in (or amortize) the $9000
cost of your license and all the overhead expenses.

It looks like an extremely costly hobby, and an even more costly form
of transportation. I'm not happy about that, but there's no denying
it.


Your calculations are defective.

The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its use is
tax deductible. That number factors in gas, oil, tires, insurance, etc.
and is pretty close to the number Hertz calculates for its fleet average
cost per mile. If you are going to compare the costs of flying with the
costs of driving, you have to include ALL the costs of driving.

The rates at Shoreline are all inclusive. It includes gas, oil, tires,
insurance, etc. The hourly rate is for engine hours, not clock time. You
only pay for the time the engine is running, not while the airplane sits on
the ground at your destination. Yes, you do have minimums to consider, but
I've only had one time in almost 20 years where that came into play, and
that was only for 15 minutes.

Take a 3 day weekend trip from PAO (where Shoreline is located) to Las
Vegas. According to Microsoft's MapPoint, the fastest route is 543 miles
and will take 8 1/2 hours by car. (I used speeds slightly above the posted
speed limits to get this time, and excluded any possible traffic delays.)
The IRS says this will cost $257.93 to drive. Using the AOPA flight
planning software, this is now a trip of only 392 miles (flying in a
straight line) and will take 3 hours. At $100/hour, this costs $300. For
the extra $42.07, I save at least 5 1/2 hours enroute (more likely 7 hours
figuring the car stops at least once and 8 to 9 hours if there are any
traffic delays).

At 8 1/2 hours one way, most people will probably stop somewhere enroute to
buy gas, use the rest room, and probably grab a bite to eat, so the trip
will be more like 9 1/2 to 10 hours. By small plane, this is a non-stop
flight. So, the time difference is even larger. And by flying, I didn't
risk a speeding ticket.

For a 3 day holiday weekend, I'm flying 6 hours round trip, which meets the
2 hour daily minimum on aircraft rental. I only pay for 6 hours, even
though I had the airplane for 3 days. And I have at least 1/2 day more
time at my destination. Given the time needed to go through commercial
airports and the security screening, the little plane beats the airlines on
this trip as far as time goes, but the costs are lower by airline.
Southwest quotes a fully refundable fare of $139.30 ($129 + taxes and fees)
from San Jose to Las Vegas and 1 hour 20 minutes flying time. If you have
2 people going on this trip, the airline costs about the same as the little
plane.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

If you are going to compare the costs of flying with the
costs of driving, you have to include ALL the costs of driving.

Well, sort of and no. If you already own the car, and would otherwise rent the plane, then by not driving, you are not saving any ownership costs (which are included in the IRS and Hertz per-mile rates). Those would have to be subtracted out, because the car is still depreciating, you still have to carry car insurance, you still have to garage it, etc. Those costs don't go away if you don't drive - they only go away if you totally get rid of the car.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Marty Shapiro writes:

The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its use is
tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Marty Shapiro writes:

The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?


I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.

I found a University (California I think) that allows 44.5 cents for
cars, 99.5 for personal aircraft. I think this is close to federal.

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.


Found the Federal reimbursements.

Margy




For use of a Your reimbursement is

§301-10.266 Is information available to the public about travel on
Government aircraft by senior Federal officials and non-Federal travelers?


Privately owned aircraft
(e.g., helicopter, except an airplane).


Actual cost of operation
(i.e., fuel, oil, plus the additional expenses listed in §301-10.304).

Yes, an agency that authorizes travel on Government air- craft and an
agency that owns or hires Government aircraft must make records about
travelers on those aircraft available to the public in response to
written requests under the Free- dom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552),
except for portions

Privately owned airplane. 1 1.07
Privately owned automobile. 1 0.405
Privately owned motorcycle. 1 0.305

1 Per mile.

Margy Natalie wrote in
m:

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much
does the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private
air travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get
to deduct the entire cost of the rental.


Found the Federal reimbursements.

Margy




For use of a Your reimbursement is

§301-10.266 Is information available to the public about travel on
Government aircraft by senior Federal officials and non-Federal
travelers?


Privately owned aircraft
(e.g., helicopter, except an airplane).


Actual cost of operation
(i.e., fuel, oil, plus the additional expenses listed in §301-10.304).

Yes, an agency that authorizes travel on Government air- craft and an
agency that owns or hires Government aircraft must make records about
travelers on those aircraft available to the public in response to
written requests under the Free- dom of Information Act (5 U.S.C.
552), except for portions

Privately owned airplane. 1 1.07
Privately owned automobile. 1 0.405
Privately owned motorcycle. 1 0.305

1 Per mile.


Thanks!

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:50:27 -0400, Margy Natalie
wrote:

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.


Found the Federal reimbursements.

Margy

For private use of non federal aircraft when I was looking into some
commuting they had several "it depends".

If I were flying my plane to a seminar held for the company I worked
for it wasn't a lot more than cars and back then that wasn't much.
OTOH IF I rented I could deduct the entire cost as long as it didn't
exceed a non discount coach class airfare between the same two
locations.

If I were self employed and using my own plane (consulting) it was
actual cost not to exceed the non discount coach class airfare.
That makes the TBM-700 a bit rich for traveling between sites with
just one person.

The Deb can come just shy of the non discount airfare.
With two in it I'm way ahead of the game.

OTOH the company I worked for prohibited employees flying their own
airplanes on company business. I took a lot of vacations the day
before and the day after a number of schools and seminars. Still,
when I retired they owed me over 90 days of vacation.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com