Get-Home-Itis, Arrogance, or What?

"Ron Snipes" wrote:
Accident occurred Monday, September 04, 2006 in Penhook, VA
....
The pilot held a private pilot certificate with a rating for airplane
single engine land, which was issued on June 17, 2006. His most recent
FAA third class medical certificate was issued on February 16, 2006.
He did not hold an instrument rating.

Looks like around four months to get the certificate and a fatal mistake in
judgment two and a half months later. :-(

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Ron Snipes" wrote:
Accident occurred Monday, September 04, 2006 in Penhook, VA
...
The pilot held a private pilot certificate with a rating for airplane
single engine land, which was issued on June 17, 2006. His most recent
FAA third class medical certificate was issued on February 16, 2006.
He did not hold an instrument rating.

Looks like around four months to get the certificate and a fatal mistake
in
judgment two and a half months later. :-(

And not just a mistake in judgment. He also lacked the skill to keep his
plane upright under instrument conditions, which all private pilots are
supposed to be trained to do.

--Gary

Besides, being carbureted, a 150 will quit after only a few seconds
inverted. The NTSB should also look at the quality and quantity of the
simulated IMC time during his training.

Viperdoc wrote:
Besides, being carbureted, a 150 will quit after only a few seconds
inverted. The NTSB should also look at the quality and quantity of the
simulated IMC time during his training.



The basic instrument flight instruction part of PP training is
really not sufficient, nor is it intended to be for sustained
flight into IMC. Especially when at the same time trying to
communicate with ATC, manage NAV radios and so forth.... that
is what the instrument rating trains you to do.

"ktbr" wrote in message
...
Viperdoc wrote:
Besides, being carbureted, a 150 will quit after only a few seconds
inverted. The NTSB should also look at the quality and quantity of the
simulated IMC time during his training.

The basic instrument flight instruction part of PP training is
really not sufficient, nor is it intended to be for sustained
flight into IMC. Especially when at the same time trying to
communicate with ATC, manage NAV radios and so forth.... that
is what the instrument rating trains you to do.

I disagree. The PP instrument training really should suffice to keep you
upright in clouds for long enough to reach VMC if there's any within range.
The instrument rating, in addition, teaches you to reliably maintain a
precise heading and altitude, perform approaches to the minima (and with a
partial panel), and understand the IFR system (planning, filing, lost comm
procedures, and other regulations).

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:

I disagree. The PP instrument training really should suffice to keep you
upright in clouds for long enough to reach VMC if there's any within range.

It is generally understood that the training is sufficient to
allow you to recognize your have entered IMC and then immediately
make a 180 and get back out.... all in the space of a reasonably
short time.... and there is not too much turbulence... and you are
not to nervous... and hopefully you have maintained those skills
since you checkride. etc. etc. It also assumes the pilot has and
uses every cell of good judgement he has.

I doubt the conditions of the obave referenced accident met this
criteria.

ktbr wrote:
Gary Drescher wrote:
I disagree. The PP instrument training really should suffice to keep
you upright in clouds for long enough to reach VMC if there's any
within range.

It is generally understood that the training is sufficient to
allow you to recognize your have entered IMC and then immediately
make a 180 and get back out.... all in the space of a reasonably
short time.... and there is not too much turbulence... and you are
not to nervous... and hopefully you have maintained those skills
since you checkride. etc. etc. It also assumes the pilot has and
uses every cell of good judgement he has.

I doubt the conditions of the obave referenced accident met this
criteria.

As soon as he decided to depart, a few cells can be assumed to be on the
blink.

All well said.

In a previous article, "Gary Drescher" said:
I disagree. The PP instrument training really should suffice to keep you
upright in clouds for long enough to reach VMC if there's any within range.

If you were in VMC and entered a cloud, it's supposed to be sufficient
training that you can make a gentle 180 back to VMC. But this idiot
launched into IMC. That's significantly different.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Panic kills"
-- Rick Grant (quoting RCAF pilot training)

"ktbr" == ktbr writes:

ktbr Viperdoc wrote:
Besides, being carbureted, a 150 will quit after only a few
seconds inverted. The NTSB should also look at the quality and
quantity of the simulated IMC time during his training.

ktbr The basic instrument flight instruction part of PP training
ktbr is really not sufficient, nor is it intended to be for
ktbr sustained flight into IMC.

Quite so. As those who have flown solo in IMC know, there is a huge
psychological difference between flying with a hood in sunshine and an
instructor and knowing what you are about to do, and blundering into
IMC with no warning and only yourself to get out of it. The hood
training for the PP can never really prepare one for the case of
blundering into IMC. Which is why on occasion I may chase a cloud and
wander a bit too close. Not every VFR pilot needs the IFR rating, but
every pilot does need some exposure to real IMC. Do it with an
instructor and learn to live another day.

--
Look, if you don't like my parties, you can leave in a huff. If that's
too soon, leave in a minute and a huff. If you can't find that, you
can leave in a taxi.
Groucho Marx

Viperdoc wrote:
Besides, being carbureted, a 150 will quit after only a few seconds
inverted.

I'm thinking in such a situation that the negative G required to kill
the engine would be pre-empted by pilot's need to pull the wings off.

Does anyone, ever, kill an engine that way when mistakenly entering IMC?