End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

Tom, I was referring to the "competitive advantage" comment by Paul,
not to the legal issue. I think it is unlikely that someone will take
advantage of it and plan to land after sunset. But since you mentioned
the FAR, not only many pilots such as you and me were not completely
aware of it, but the badge and record committe as well as some of the
SSA-OLC committe were not aware, and as such many badges and records
over the years (including one state record of mine) were approved
although landed after sunset.

Ramy


5Z wrote:
Ramy wrote:
Isn't it exactly the same "advantage" any motorglider has when they
start the engine far from home and get scored up to that point? Andy's
suggestion will allow pilots to land back home safely few minutes after
sunset if necessary rather then land out to get scored, or fly back
home and don't get scored at all...

No it's not the same. The MG is not breaking a FAR by starting the
engine. Flying a sailplane after sunset without position lights is
ILLEGAL. Time and position is something our FRs measure quite
accurately, and "official" sunset is available before the flight.
There is no excuse or "fudge factor" as is possible within some limits
on altitude and SUA penetration.

Until recently, I was unaware of the difference between "night flight"
and need for position lights, so thought it was OK to fly until 30
minutes beyond sunset. I now know it is not. I know I've busted this
rule in the past out of ignorance, but not in the last 5-10 years if I
recall.

As with any law, ignorance is not an excuse, so I would have not
hesitated to witdraw a claim that proves a violation on my part.

-Tom

It certainly is a competitive advantage for one pilot to be pushing the
envelope on flying to the point where he is potentially forced to violate
the FARs vs. another pilot who is planning ahead and flying conservatively
enough to make sure that he stays legal.

Mike Schumann

"Ramy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Tom, I was referring to the "competitive advantage" comment by Paul,
not to the legal issue. I think it is unlikely that someone will take
advantage of it and plan to land after sunset. But since you mentioned
the FAR, not only many pilots such as you and me were not completely
aware of it, but the badge and record committe as well as some of the
SSA-OLC committe were not aware, and as such many badges and records
over the years (including one state record of mine) were approved
although landed after sunset.

Ramy


5Z wrote:
Ramy wrote:
Isn't it exactly the same "advantage" any motorglider has when they
start the engine far from home and get scored up to that point? Andy's
suggestion will allow pilots to land back home safely few minutes after
sunset if necessary rather then land out to get scored, or fly back
home and don't get scored at all...

No it's not the same. The MG is not breaking a FAR by starting the
engine. Flying a sailplane after sunset without position lights is
ILLEGAL. Time and position is something our FRs measure quite
accurately, and "official" sunset is available before the flight.
There is no excuse or "fudge factor" as is possible within some limits
on altitude and SUA penetration.

Until recently, I was unaware of the difference between "night flight"
and need for position lights, so thought it was OK to fly until 30
minutes beyond sunset. I now know it is not. I know I've busted this
rule in the past out of ignorance, but not in the last 5-10 years if I
recall.

As with any law, ignorance is not an excuse, so I would have not
hesitated to witdraw a claim that proves a violation on my part.

-Tom