Flyboys Movie: the aircraft

SPOILERS AHEAD






On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:34:37 -0700, Richard Riley
wrote:

They're trying to make a good movie, not an accurate one. And "good"
means "Will sell many tickets to 18-24 year olds." I can't blame
them, if I'd spent $80 million making a movie, I'd want to sell
tickets, too. The ticket buying public doesn't care how accurate the
flying sequences are. They care about who gets the girl, will our
hero find his destiny, and how many things blow up.

A very good point, Richard, but it's my belief that "Will sell many tickets to
18-24 year olds" and "Accurate" aren't mutually exclusive. As I've previously
posted, I agree things have to be simplified and sometimes even made inaccurate
to help the non-flying public understand. But that's not an excuse to throw
realism out the window.

I mean, shoot, when Rawlins meets the girl at the hospital, would it have killed
the film to have her arm in a sling? Rawlin's nighttime flights to save the
girl and her family (by flying TWICE to an unlit field in the middle of a
hundred unlit fields...) *might* have been possible on a bright, moonlit
night...why not have him comment about "at least the moon is full..." Why not
have the pilot saw off the tail of the Fokker with his propeller (which DID
happen) rather than strip the wing off with his landing gear? Why not show the
Fokkers in historically accurate paint jobs, and put the BAD guy in an all-red
one?

When the one pilot gets the "twitch" and can't fly, surely it'd be more dramatic
to point out that the French cure for this was breakfast with seven gun-toting
men and a blindfold...and have his friends concoct a scheme to protect him?
When the one pilot comments that it's his plan to shoot down one enemy then go
back to America, surely it would have been more dramatic to point out that this
would be desertion, for which the man (if caught) would have been the next
blindfold recipient?

Lest it appear that I'm trying to scare people away from the movie...I'm not.
Many of the flying scenes are excellent, as are the combat scenes, and most
people don't seem as sensitive to the CGI as I am. Please DO go see it, and
decide for yourself. In my case, when I've gone to movies with lower
expectations, I quite often enjoy myself more.

Ron "You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll kiss nine bucks goodbye" Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
SPOILERS AHEAD






Lest it appear that I'm trying to scare people away from the movie...I'm
not.
Many of the flying scenes are excellent, as are the combat scenes, and
most
people don't seem as sensitive to the CGI as I am. Please DO go see it,
and
decide for yourself. In my case, when I've gone to movies with lower
expectations, I quite often enjoy myself more.

Ron "You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll kiss nine bucks goodbye" Wanttaja


I'm a Scot, through my Grandmother, and devoutly thrifty. I'll wait and see
it on cable.
The last movie I saw with computer generated characters was "Anaconda". The
big snakes don't move like the one in the movie. Is that also true of the
computer generated aircraft?

Harold
KD5SAK

I'm a Scot, through my Grandmother, and devoutly thrifty.

And you're a *pilot*?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
I'm a Scot, through my Grandmother, and devoutly thrifty.

And you're a *pilot*?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck


Actually, I am not. Though I'm interested, the wife has forbidden me to
pursue any such activity. Since I'm 74, I've decided she's probably right in
her position. I probably won't last long enough to build a craft and I'm
certainly too tight to buy a ready-made. (G) I do enjoy kibitzing on those
of you that do fly, though. As an former Jr. High shop teacher, I take
special interest in some of the building details I read about.


Harold
KD5SAK

"kd5sak" wrote in message
. ..

Actually, I am not. Though I'm interested, the wife has forbidden me to
pursue any such activity. Since I'm 74, I've decided she's probably right
in her position. I probably won't last long enough to build a craft and
I'm certainly too tight to buy a ready-made. (G) I do enjoy kibitzing on
those of you that do fly, though. As an former Jr. High shop teacher, I
take special interest in some of the building details I read about.

Harold.........

Since you're down there in "5" land, I know a few Texas dwellers who would
be happy to take a passenger up (and back down again, of course).

Rich S.

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"kd5sak" wrote in message
. ..

Since you're down there in "5" land, I know a few Texas dwellers who would
be happy to take a passenger up (and back down again, of course).

Rich S.

Wellsir, I was a Texican for nearly half my life. I know how Texans feel
about
outlanders, though, I might find myself as jettisonable ballast rather than
a passenger.
Actually, long a reloader of .44 Mag, I'd not shoot anyone elses reloads and
would rather
not fly if I can't do it myself. That may be a kind of Texas attitude, but
what can I say, I was still young and impressionable when I first wrote GTT
on the door and left Oklahoma.(G) I worked some years for the Federal
Government, taught in the Dallas schools for eleven years, and
then put in 12 or so more helping design retrievable packers for Otis
Engineering (a Halliburton owned company). Once the GoodWife and I were both
retired we returned north of the Red River where we still have relatives. I
do appreciate the offer, though.

Harold
KD5SAK

I mean, shoot, when Rawlins meets the girl at the hospital, would it have killed
the film to have her arm in a sling?

Agreed. Mary and I figured that the director had clearly edited out
some intermediate scene(s) between the girl being shot, and that scene
in the hospital. I think they got a little bit TOO ruthless with the
knife, and lost continuity as a result.

Rawlin's nighttime flights to save the
girl and her family (by flying TWICE to an unlit field in the middle of a
hundred unlit fields...) *might* have been possible on a bright, moonlit
night...why not have him comment about "at least the moon is full..."

Aw, that scene was just unbelievable, full moon or not. Just like the
scenes in "Pearl Harbor" where the protaganist fights in the Battle of
Britain, the attack on Pearl Harbor, AND the Doolittle Raid on Japan.
It's just Hollywood being Hollywood, and there is apparently nothing
anyone can do to stop them from doing this sort of thing.

Why not
have the pilot saw off the tail of the Fokker with his propeller (which DID
happen) rather than strip the wing off with his landing gear?

I actually thought THAT scene was pretty cool. No way to do THAT
without CG.

Why not show the
Fokkers in historically accurate paint jobs, and put the BAD guy in an all-red
one?

Hollywood, again. The red tri-plane is universally associated with the
Germans by millions of Americans. Only 1 in a 1000 people know (or
care) that only the Red Baron flew an all-red one.

When the one pilot gets the "twitch" and can't fly, surely it'd be more dramatic
to point out that the French cure for this was breakfast with seven gun-toting
men and a blindfold...and have his friends concoct a scheme to protect him?

I'll bet that story line was considered and discarded on the basis of
time. Everything in movies is about editing, and Flyboys is already
pretty long.

When the one pilot comments that it's his plan to shoot down one enemy then go
back to America, surely it would have been more dramatic to point out that this
would be desertion, for which the man (if caught) would have been the next
blindfold recipient?

Would that have been true in the all-volunteer American squadron?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 26 Sep 2006 14:32:38 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

When the one pilot comments that it's his plan to shoot down one enemy then go
back to America, surely it would have been more dramatic to point out that this
would be desertion, for which the man (if caught) would have been the next
blindfold recipient?

Would that have been true in the all-volunteer American squadron?

The Escadrille Lafayette wasn't the Flying Tigers... it was a duly-constituted
squadron of the French Air Service, not a mercenary unit. Members were under
French military law, which, for instance, permitted members of a unit to be
randomly selected for execution (irrespective of the soldier's individual
behavior) if that unit failed in combat.

What's more, the American government at the time was pretty prickly, claiming
that citizens who pledged allegiance to a foreign government (as is usually the
case when someone joins a country's military) would give up their US
citizenship. Lafayette Escadrille members got around that by enlisting in the
French Foreign Legion (the Legion's enlistment oath only requires that the
member obey his officers) and then transferring to the Air Service. At last
report, the Legion never has been too friendly towards cowards or deserters. :-)

One of the early Americans in the French Air Service deserted in the middle of a
spying scandal, and one would suspect the French military might well have taken
a hard line in a similar case. Geopolitical realities might have prevented the
outright execution of an American deserter, of course. But French military
prisons of the time were no fun, either...kind of like Abu Graib with garlic.

BTW, the Lafayette Escadrille still exists, as the Lafayette Group in the Armee
de l'aire. They still fly with the Indian head insignia...

http://maquette72.free.fr/themes/laf...adron_2esc.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

("Ron Wanttaja" wrote)
BTW, the Lafayette Escadrille still exists, as the Lafayette Group in the
Armee de l'aire. They still fly with the Indian head insignia...

http://maquette72.free.fr/themes/lafayette/2000N_escadron_2esc/mirage2000N_escadron_2esc.jpg


http://www.neam.org/lafescweb/afterthewar.html
Lafayette Escadrille - Post WWI
"The history of the Lafayette Escadrille did not end when the squadron was
incorporated into the American Air Service. Recognizing the contribution of
the American volunteers who flew for the French cause, the Service
Aeronautique designated one of its own squadrons to carry on the tradition."


MonBlac

Jay Honeck wrote:
snip

Aw, that scene was just unbelievable, full moon or not. Just like the
scenes in "Pearl Harbor" where the protaganist fights in the Battle of
Britain, the attack on Pearl Harbor, AND the Doolittle Raid on Japan.
It's just Hollywood being Hollywood, and there is apparently nothing
anyone can do to stop them from doing this sort of thing.


snip

Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Ah, Pearl Harbor. Brings tears to me eyes how bad that movie was. Even
suspending my gullability I couldn't stomach it. I even read the book
and it wasn't much better. A whole bunch of cliches strung end to end
with only a nebulous story line. I mean, really! Boy finds girl, boy
goes to war, boy gets killed, boy shows up allive...BARF.

One of the worst was the "We need some hotshot bomber pilots. Lets go
out and get us a bunch of fighter pilots"...uhuh.

Harry K