NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

I just went back and re-read the story and realized that this was not truly a garmin problem. The modified fuel system caused the problem and those additions are outside the design envelop of the garmin system.

I most strenuously disagree. Systems should be designed NOT to fail
catastrophically when outside their "intended use". The problem was
=not= caused by the modified fuel system, rather, the problem was caused
by unexpected sensor input. In this case the unexpected sensor input
was caused by the modified fuel system, but it could have come from any
number of reasons, and the whole point of aviation systems is that they
be robust.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I just went back and re-read the story and realized that this was not
truly a garmin problem. The modified fuel system caused the problem and
those additions are outside the design envelop of the garmin system.

I most strenuously disagree. Systems should be designed NOT to fail
catastrophically when outside their "intended use". The problem was =not=
caused by the modified fuel system, rather, the problem was caused by
unexpected sensor input. In this case the unexpected sensor input was
caused by the modified fuel system, but it could have come from any number
of reasons, and the whole point of aviation systems is that they be
robust.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Don't think it was just one error causing the system to fail and reboot I
think it was multiple problems compounded by 1 problem. But still the system
should not reboot itself. When on the phone with Cessna engineering and
Garmin support they said they had a similar problem during stalls and slow
flight.

When on the phone with Cessna engineering and
Garmin support they said they had a similar
problem during stalls and slow flight.

Sheesh, and they marketed it anyway?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose writes:

Sheesh, and they marketed it anyway?

That's the standard PC mindset. If it compiles without errors, ship
it. Works great for Excel. If it kills anybody, his kin can call
technical support and get the first 10 minutes free.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Jose writes:

Sheesh, and they marketed it anyway?

That's the standard PC mindset. If it compiles without errors, ship
it. Works great for Excel. If it kills anybody, his kin can call
technical support and get the first 10 minutes free.

And them people are why I keep trying to push my retroactive abortion laws
hahahah (Joke)!


--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:47:43 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote in
:

When on the phone with Cessna engineering and
Garmin support they said they had a similar problem
during stalls and slow flight.

So, the uncommanded FIS rebooting was a known issue, and both
manufactures chose to release their products for use? One would have
thought Cessna would have learned not to do that from their seat-rail
issue. I hope the premiums are paid current on their errors and
omissions insurance policies.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:47:43 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote in
:

When on the phone with Cessna engineering and
Garmin support they said they had a similar problem
during stalls and slow flight.

So, the uncommanded FIS rebooting was a known issue, and both
manufactures chose to release their products for use? One would have
thought Cessna would have learned not to do that from their seat-rail
issue. I hope the premiums are paid current on their errors and
omissions insurance policies.

Yea, its a scary thought! The G1,000 System is nice when it works "Great IFR
platform for situational awareness" But they do need some manual back up of
some critical items for safe IFR flight. I know I would not fly into IFR
conditions in a G1000 equipped airplane with my family or a passenger on
board. After sitting for 70 hours on Cessna version of the G1000 Scares the
hell out of me and it takes a lot to scare me! To many bugs and failure in
70 hours of flight! Look at my finial day the Tach. even failed!

"NW_Pilot" wrote in message
...


Yea, its a scary thought! The G1,000 System is nice when it works "Great
IFR platform for situational awareness" But they do need some manual back
up of some critical items for safe IFR flight. I know I would not fly into
IFR conditions in a G1000 equipped airplane with my family or a passenger
on board. After sitting for 70 hours on Cessna version of the G1000 Scares
the hell out of me and it takes a lot to scare me! To many bugs and
failure in 70 hours of flight! Look at my finial day the Tach. even
failed!



I think you did good. This whole adventure and your handling of it has IMHO
wiped away the stain on your reputation that was the 150 roll.

NW_Pilot schrieb:

Yea, its a scary thought! The G1,000 System is nice when it works "Great IFR
platform for situational awareness" But they do need some manual back up of
some critical items for safe IFR flight. I know I would not fly into IFR
conditions in a G1000 equipped airplane with my family or a passenger on

Not that I want to excuse those system failures the least bit, and not
that I would not have an adrenaline rush in that situation, but there
*are* manual back ups for the critical items! At least in those planes
I've seen so far, there has always been a "steam" AI, a "steam" ASI, a
"steam" altimeter and a whisky compass. You can perfectly fly in IMC
with this equipment.

Look at my finial day the Tach. even failed!

Hardly a critical item.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
NW_Pilot schrieb:

Yea, its a scary thought! The G1,000 System is nice when it works "Great
IFR platform for situational awareness" But they do need some manual back
up of some critical items for safe IFR flight. I know I would not fly
into IFR conditions in a G1000 equipped airplane with my family or a
passenger on

Not that I want to excuse those system failures the least bit, and not
that I would not have an adrenaline rush in that situation, but there
*are* manual back ups for the critical items! At least in those planes
I've seen so far, there has always been a "steam" AI, a "steam" ASI, a
"steam" altimeter and a whisky compass. You can perfectly fly in IMC with
this equipment.

Look at my finial day the Tach. even failed!

Hardly a critical item.

Stefan

I would not say perfectly you can hold straight and level and do climbs and
descents but without a reliable source of navigation except for a compass
(which has it's errors) and the deviations in Greenland area can be as much
as 40 degrees then add the wind correction makes for challenging navigation
for a few hundred miles with only a compass. Now when the only approach you
have is an NDB and the indicator don't work hahahaha!!! Trust me you don't
want to be there it's not fun but, it is a rush up until the moment you turn
on your portable gps and it downloads your present position and draws a line
to the nearest airport 200+ miles away!