NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

NW_Pilot schrieb:

for a few hundred miles with only a compass. Now when the only approach you
have is an NDB and the indicator don't work hahahaha!!! Trust me you don't
want to be there it's not fun but,

I trust you. All I said is that there are all the backup instrument
needed to keep the plane flying. Now if your mission *relies* on
electronic navigation aids, then it's a good idea to have such a backup
handy. But not all missions rely on them, so I don't see the need to add
them by default.

Stefan

Stefan wrote in
:

Not that I want to excuse those system failures the least bit, and not
that I would not have an adrenaline rush in that situation, but there
*are* manual back ups for the critical items! At least in those planes
I've seen so far, there has always been a "steam" AI, a "steam" ASI, a
"steam" altimeter and a whisky compass. You can perfectly fly in IMC
with this equipment.

Sure, you can keep the plane aloft, but how would you navigate or fly an
approach? By the compass and Dead Reckoning? I guess it's not that much
different than an alternator / battery failure. But I think a total
electrical system failure is pretty rare. And while often missed, there are
warning signs that can give you advance warning of an impending electrical
failure so that you can get to safety (VFR or on the ground) before you are
left without effective navigation instruments (VOR, GPS, etc.). You can
even control the amount of time you have by reducing consumption (ie:
turning stuff off) and saving it for the necessary phases of your flight.

Sensors fail frequently by comparison. Hell - fuel system sensors fail so
frequently that every pilot I know checks his fuel level visually because
the fuel sensors can't be trusted. There are even discussions about whether
a fuel sensor that reads empty all the time is legally considered failed!

There is built-in redundancy in the airplane electrical system - you have
an alternator and a battery. Having your redundant electrical system
essentially undermined by a poorly designed glass panel that fails
completely when any one sensor misbehaves is unfortunate at best, and is
added risk that seems unjustifiable.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:47:44 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote in
:

After sitting for 70 hours on Cessna version of the G1000 Scares the
hell out of me and it takes a lot to scare me! To many bugs and failure in
70 hours of flight! Look at my finial day the Tach. even failed!

Was that a mechanical tach?

I would write a report of your experience detailing the equipment
failures that occurred, and politely and respectfully send copies to
Cessna and Garmin. If you word it, so that it contains implicit
references to their exposure to civil liability, and express your
disappointment with the performance of their products, who knows how
they may respond. They may try to appease you with a perk or two. If
not, forward the report to AOPA, FSDO, and AvWeb. :-)

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:47:44 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote in
:

After sitting for 70 hours on Cessna version of the G1000 Scares the
hell out of me and it takes a lot to scare me! To many bugs and failure in
70 hours of flight! Look at my finial day the Tach. even failed!

Was that a mechanical tach?

I would write a report of your experience detailing the equipment
failures that occurred, and politely and respectfully send copies to
Cessna and Garmin. If you word it, so that it contains implicit
references to their exposure to civil liability, and express your
disappointment with the performance of their products, who knows how
they may respond. They may try to appease you with a perk or two. If
not, forward the report to AOPA, FSDO, and AvWeb. :-)


Larry, That's a great Idea and the Tach. was part of the G1000 system I am
not sure of the cause of the failure did not hang around in Beirut long
enough to find out the diagnostics.

See Photo
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...ch_Failure.jpg

Larry Dighera writes:

I would write a report of your experience detailing the equipment
failures that occurred, and politely and respectfully send copies to
Cessna and Garmin. If you word it, so that it contains implicit
references to their exposure to civil liability, and express your
disappointment with the performance of their products, who knows how
they may respond. They may try to appease you with a perk or two. If
not, forward the report to AOPA, FSDO, and AvWeb. :-)

Most software licenses disclaim all responsibility for everything
except an unreadable CD, although these disclaimers have never been
thoroughly tested in court, as far as I know.

--
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Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Larry Dighera writes:

I would write a report of your experience detailing the equipment
failures that occurred, and politely and respectfully send copies to
Cessna and Garmin. If you word it, so that it contains implicit
references to their exposure to civil liability, and express your
disappointment with the performance of their products, who knows how
they may respond. They may try to appease you with a perk or two.
If not, forward the report to AOPA, FSDO, and AvWeb. :-)

Most software licenses disclaim all responsibility for everything
except an unreadable CD, although these disclaimers have never been
thoroughly tested in court, as far as I know.

The kind of software that you're using isn't likely to get you killed.
This is a different ballgame altogether.

Neil

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Most software licenses disclaim all responsibility for everything
except an unreadable CD, although these disclaimers have never been
thoroughly tested in court, as far as I know.

Most software licenses are not certified by the FAA.

Software that is certified by a regulatory organization typically is held to
a bit of a higher standard than the desktop software pushed out by Microsoft.

Another good example is FDA certified software in the Pharmacuetical
industry. They too have a CFR much like aviation does, and have rigorous
standards for testing and certification before any change can be made.

Larry Dighera wrote:

Was that a mechanical tach?

I would write a report of your experience detailing the equipment
failures that occurred, and politely and respectfully send copies to
Cessna and Garmin. If you word it, so that it contains implicit
references to their exposure to civil liability, and express your
disappointment with the performance of their products, who knows how
they may respond. They may try to appease you with a perk or two. If
not, forward the report to AOPA, FSDO, and AvWeb. :-)

And a NASA Report.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Larry Dighera writes:

So, the uncommanded FIS rebooting was a known issue, and both
manufactures chose to release their products for use?

Money talks.

I hope the premiums are paid current on their errors and
omissions insurance policies.

Software seems to be mysteriously immune to this sort of lawsuit.

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NW_Pilot writes:

When on the phone with Cessna engineering and
Garmin support they said they had a similar problem during stalls and slow
flight.

I guess reboots are to be expected during stalls and slow flight,
given how incredibly rare and improbable these things are, eh?

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