NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

Judah schrieb:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,

Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we don't know.

Stefan

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,

Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we don't know.

True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really fail
-- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,

Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we
don't know.

True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really
fail -- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.

I agree that we are in no position to determine the cause of the problems;
they could be specific to this particular unit, or caused by damage during
the installation of the ferry tank and other panel mounted items rather
than the general design of the G1000. However, it still troubles me that
Garmin told NW_Pilot that the system can experience similar problems
during stalls and in slow flight. That *does* sound like the G1000 has
some design issues that need sorting out.

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,
Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we
don't know.
True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really
fail -- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.

I agree that we are in no position to determine the cause of the problems;
they could be specific to this particular unit, or caused by damage during
the installation of the ferry tank and other panel mounted items rather
than the general design of the G1000. However, it still troubles me that
Garmin told NW_Pilot that the system can experience similar problems
during stalls and in slow flight. That *does* sound like the G1000 has
some design issues that need sorting out.

Neil



I just went back and reread his account. ( I'm not flaming Steven but
if you've read his emails before you know that his written words can
often be difficult to read for content ) He said that the fuel readings
went to red Xs ( as a properly designed system with a out of spec sensor
should ) after flying ( and venting excess fuel for 7 hours ) Then he
got a CO2 warning then a GPS-1 failure. It was after the GPS1 failure
that the unit rebooted. Now failure of the fuel system I would not want
a reboot for but in some situations failure of the primary navigation
system may be grounds for a reboot depending on what failed. After the
reboot completed he was missing readings like fuel and airspeeds. He
mentions other errors but does not say what they were. He does not
specifically say that the system rebooted again directly. He said in
summery it was continually rebooting but I question that. Steven - Was
it rebooting or did it just reboot once after the initial failure? He
mentions that on downwind the fuel readings were working again but then
failed again during turn to final. Did the sensors starting given valid
information after the fuel burned off enough to have then in range and
then fail again during the turn? Not sure. He does mention the G1000
rebooting again during his landing. Was this the second reboot? Did
other instruments fail again? Too many questions and not enough
information to say for sure.

"John Theune" wrote in message
news:tLuUg.6710$vT1.5556@trndny03...
Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,
Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we
don't know.
True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really
fail -- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.

I agree that we are in no position to determine the cause of the
problems;
they could be specific to this particular unit, or caused by damage
during
the installation of the ferry tank and other panel mounted items rather
than the general design of the G1000. However, it still troubles me that
Garmin told NW_Pilot that the system can experience similar problems
during stalls and in slow flight. That *does* sound like the G1000 has
some design issues that need sorting out.

Neil



I just went back and reread his account. ( I'm not flaming Steven but if
you've read his emails before you know that his written words can often be
difficult to read for content ) He said that the fuel readings went to
red Xs ( as a properly designed system with a out of spec sensor should )
after flying ( and venting excess fuel for 7 hours ) Then he got a CO2
warning then a GPS-1 failure. It was after the GPS1 failure that the unit
rebooted. Now failure of the fuel system I would not want a reboot for
but in some situations failure of the primary navigation system may be
grounds for a reboot depending on what failed. After the reboot completed
he was missing readings like fuel and airspeeds. He mentions other errors
but does not say what they were. He does not specifically say that the
system rebooted again directly. He said in summery it was continually
rebooting but I question that. Steven - Was it rebooting or did it just
reboot once after the initial failure? He mentions that on downwind the
fuel readings were working again but then failed again during turn to
final. Did the sensors starting given valid information after the fuel
burned off enough to have then in range and then fail again during the
turn? Not sure. He does mention the G1000 rebooting again during his
landing. Was this the second reboot? Did other instruments fail again?
Too many questions and not enough information to say for sure.


Will solve this question, It had to many reboots to count! The unit would
reboot then start showing items failing then reboot again start showing
items failing then reboot again and again for a few hundred miles! After
each reboot it took about 10 to 15 min to reboot again. The fuel sensors
starting given valid information upon the reboot after landing and I still
had Co2 and GPS Failure On Landing and airspeed was still a Red X! I only
took note of the critical errors I tried my best to document them all but I
am not superman I still needed to fly the plane.

Recently, NW_Pilot posted:

"John Theune" wrote in message
news:tLuUg.6710$vT1.5556@trndny03...
Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total
system failure,
Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence
is pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we
don't know.
True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really
fail -- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.

I agree that we are in no position to determine the cause of the
problems;
they could be specific to this particular unit, or caused by damage
during
the installation of the ferry tank and other panel mounted items
rather than the general design of the G1000. However, it still
troubles me that Garmin told NW_Pilot that the system can
experience similar problems during stalls and in slow flight. That
*does* sound like the G1000 has some design issues that need
sorting out.

Neil



I just went back and reread his account. ( I'm not flaming Steven
but if you've read his emails before you know that his written words
can often be difficult to read for content ) He said that the fuel
readings went to red Xs ( as a properly designed system with a out
of spec sensor should ) after flying ( and venting excess fuel for 7
hours ) Then he got a CO2 warning then a GPS-1 failure. It was
after the GPS1 failure that the unit rebooted. Now failure of the
fuel system I would not want a reboot for but in some situations
failure of the primary navigation system may be grounds for a reboot
depending on what failed. After the reboot completed he was missing
readings like fuel and airspeeds. He mentions other errors but does
not say what they were. He does not specifically say that the
system rebooted again directly. He said in summery it was
continually rebooting but I question that. Steven - Was it
rebooting or did it just reboot once after the initial failure? He
mentions that on downwind the fuel readings were working again but
then failed again during turn to final. Did the sensors starting
given valid information after the fuel burned off enough to have
then in range and then fail again during the turn? Not sure. He
does mention the G1000 rebooting again during his landing. Was this
the second reboot? Did other instruments fail again? Too many
questions and not enough information to say for sure.


Will solve this question, It had to many reboots to count! The unit
would reboot then start showing items failing then reboot again start
showing items failing then reboot again and again for a few hundred
miles! After each reboot it took about 10 to 15 min to reboot again.
The fuel sensors starting given valid information upon the reboot
after landing and I still had Co2 and GPS Failure On Landing and
airspeed was still a Red X! I only took note of the critical errors I
tried my best to document them all but I am not superman I still
needed to fly the plane.

First of all, I think you did a superb job of handling all aspects of this
fiasco. It has to be awfully distracting to have your controls constantly
rebooting while you're trying determine whether you can get to safety.

Your description of the installation quality of the aux tank and other
items in the panel that could have been done better with a hacksaw and a
drill makes me suspect that the G1000 was damaged during this process. The
only thing that makes me think that the G1000 design may have problems is
their telling you that the unit experiences problems in normal flight
configurations. I'm curious about *which* problems, but that's only a
curiosity; I'd have a hard time trusting the unit if there aren't backup
gauges.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
m...
Recently, NW_Pilot posted:

"John Theune" wrote in message
news:tLuUg.6710$vT1.5556@trndny03...
Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total
system failure,
Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence
is pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we
don't know.
True. In addition to the fuel sensor "overload" (it didn't really
fail -- it just sent info to the G1000 that made no sense), he also
experienced a CO sensor failure, and (later) a tach failure.

It's hard to say what caused what to happen, without more data.

I agree that we are in no position to determine the cause of the
problems;
they could be specific to this particular unit, or caused by damage
during
the installation of the ferry tank and other panel mounted items
rather than the general design of the G1000. However, it still
troubles me that Garmin told NW_Pilot that the system can
experience similar problems during stalls and in slow flight. That
*does* sound like the G1000 has some design issues that need
sorting out.

Neil



I just went back and reread his account. ( I'm not flaming Steven
but if you've read his emails before you know that his written words
can often be difficult to read for content ) He said that the fuel
readings went to red Xs ( as a properly designed system with a out
of spec sensor should ) after flying ( and venting excess fuel for 7
hours ) Then he got a CO2 warning then a GPS-1 failure. It was
after the GPS1 failure that the unit rebooted. Now failure of the
fuel system I would not want a reboot for but in some situations
failure of the primary navigation system may be grounds for a reboot
depending on what failed. After the reboot completed he was missing
readings like fuel and airspeeds. He mentions other errors but does
not say what they were. He does not specifically say that the
system rebooted again directly. He said in summery it was
continually rebooting but I question that. Steven - Was it
rebooting or did it just reboot once after the initial failure? He
mentions that on downwind the fuel readings were working again but
then failed again during turn to final. Did the sensors starting
given valid information after the fuel burned off enough to have
then in range and then fail again during the turn? Not sure. He
does mention the G1000 rebooting again during his landing. Was this
the second reboot? Did other instruments fail again? Too many
questions and not enough information to say for sure.


Will solve this question, It had to many reboots to count! The unit
would reboot then start showing items failing then reboot again start
showing items failing then reboot again and again for a few hundred
miles! After each reboot it took about 10 to 15 min to reboot again.
The fuel sensors starting given valid information upon the reboot
after landing and I still had Co2 and GPS Failure On Landing and
airspeed was still a Red X! I only took note of the critical errors I
tried my best to document them all but I am not superman I still
needed to fly the plane.

First of all, I think you did a superb job of handling all aspects of this
fiasco. It has to be awfully distracting to have your controls constantly
rebooting while you're trying determine whether you can get to safety.

Your description of the installation quality of the aux tank and other
items in the panel that could have been done better with a hacksaw and a
drill makes me suspect that the G1000 was damaged during this process. The
only thing that makes me think that the G1000 design may have problems is
their telling you that the unit experiences problems in normal flight
configurations. I'm curious about *which* problems, but that's only a
curiosity; I'd have a hard time trusting the unit if there aren't backup
gauges.

Neil



After this Issue I think that there should be manual back up gauges and
instruments for the required equipment under FAR 91.205!

On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:16:50 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote in
:

! I only
took note of the critical errors I tried my best to document them all but I
am not superman I still needed to fly the plane.

Was it not equipped with an auto pilot?

Larry Dighera schrieb:

am not superman I still needed to fly the plane.

Was it not equipped with an auto pilot?

Probably linked to the G1000...

Stefan wrote in news:4ae0d$452250a2$54487310$26151
@news.hispeed.ch:

Judah schrieb:

However, in this case, the fuel sensor failure caused a total system
failure,

Actually, we do not know this. We can assume it, and the evidence is
pretty strong, but there might have been other factors which we don't know.

Fair enough...

Anyone with a G1000 want to test the theory out?