Brazil 737-Embraer Crash

Dave S wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
I did read today that they are holding the American pilots hostage
until they investigate further.

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Because the Brazilian government has zero reason to suspect criminal
action on their part.

Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

Emily wrote:

Dave S wrote:

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Because the Brazilian government has zero reason to suspect criminal
action on their part.

Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do the
same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major incident under
suspicious circumstances.

Second, the early analysis of the recorders and ATC logs suggests that
the transponder on the Legacy stopped functioning sometime before the
collision, and started functioning again after the collision. the
investigators want to determine if it was deliberate or a technical
fault.

The Brazilians also claim that the crew on the Legacy "ignored" an ATC
request to change altitude before the collision. They were flying at an
odd altitude (37,000 ft) in a northwest direction, and had been told to
descend to 36,000. While the crew didn't respond to radio calls before
the collision, they got in contact with ATC after the collision.

The judge who ordered the passports held felt there was enough evidence
to warrant holding their passports until an investigation into possible
negligence could be completed.

I haven't seen anything yet to explain why the 737 wouldn't have been
told to change course or altitude by ATC with the Legacy not reponding.
However, the news reports are really vague and incomplete, so I'm not
sure anything reported so far about the collision can be taken as fact.

James Robinson wrote:

Emily wrote:


Dave S wrote:

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Because the Brazilian government has zero reason to suspect criminal
action on their part.

Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.


First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do the
same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major incident under
suspicious circumstances.

They aren't being detained, but they can't leave. Do you know what
detain means?

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do
the same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major
incident under suspicious circumstances.

They aren't being detained, but they can't leave. Do you know what
detain means?

Slight legal distinction. Michael Jackson wasn't considered as detained
when he was awaiting trial, but he did have to surrender his passport.

In this case, the pilots aren't in the slammer in Sao Paulo, and are free
to travel around Brazil, but cannot leave the country. I consider detained
as being in the custody of the police.

James Robinson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


James Robinson wrote:


First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do
the same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major
incident under suspicious circumstances.

They aren't being detained, but they can't leave. Do you know what
detain means?


Slight legal distinction. Michael Jackson wasn't considered as detained
when he was awaiting trial, but he did have to surrender his passport.

In this case, the pilots aren't in the slammer in Sao Paulo, and are free
to travel around Brazil, but cannot leave the country. I consider detained
as being in the custody of the police.

I didn't see "custody of the police" in the dictionary definition.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


James Robinson wrote:


First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do
the same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major
incident under suspicious circumstances.

They aren't being detained, but they can't leave. Do you know what
detain means?


Slight legal distinction. Michael Jackson wasn't considered as
detained when he was awaiting trial, but he did have to surrender his
passport.

In this case, the pilots aren't in the slammer in Sao Paulo, and are
free to travel around Brazil, but cannot leave the country. I
consider detained as being in the custody of the police.

I didn't see "custody of the police" in the dictionary definition.

Matt


So you consider that Michael Jackson was detained?

The Embraer was northwest bound at FL370. The 737 southeast bound (I
think). The Embraer was supposed to be at FL360 from what I've heard.
Has anyone read a report on the ATC clearances given?

Then of course I am really scratching my head about 2 TCAS "failures" or
at least TCAS being ignored. Sad.

KC

Emily wrote:


Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

Kevin Clarke wrote:

Then of course I am really scratching my head about 2 TCAS "failures" or
at least TCAS being ignored. Sad.

TCAS only works with both transponders working. One was not working.

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:22:08 -0500, James Robinson
wrote in :


TCAS only works with both transponders working.

Is the operating TCAS aboard the aircraft that is receiving a
transponder signal from another aircraft in its vicinity totally
incapable of outputting ANY useful information?

(Let me try to make my question a little clearer.)

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:22:08 -0500, James Robinson
wrote in :


TCAS only works with both transponders working.

Is the operating TCAS aboard the aircraft that is receiving a
transponder signal from another aircraft in its vicinity totally
incapable of outputting ANY useful information when it's transponder
is not operating?