oct 2 report to members

Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK


wrote:
Ok, having lurked, read, or mulled over all that is being written I do
need to say this last post is what is bad about RAS and this internet
stuff. Would you in a public meeting, use this kind of language to
persuade others? I know almost no one personally on this group, yet I
know who I would at least listen to if I met them. This is language I
hear at school and have to correct all the time...since most kids have
very limited verbal skills when making emotional comments. A little
skunk one said if ya can't say nothin nice, then don't say nothin at
all. Voice your concerns, leave the poor language to the people that
can think of no other way to express themselves.

Larry Johnson SSA member
Frank Reid wrote:
5-BG wrote:
There are MANY reasons that a poster to this board might nor want to sign his name.
1. He may be a sitting judge.
2. he may be a local or national politician with an interest in soaring who does not want this issue to be introduced by his political opponents.
3. He may be a political staffer or appointee who , by way of his position, may have some distant possible conflict should his principal be called upon to enact legislation revelant to the SSA.
4. He may be an ssa member who works for the IRS, the NM tax people or the NM ag.. who wants to send an unofficial message to the membership of the ssa that the **** is about to hit the fan.
5. he may be a pilot who is seeking a berth on the national team who does not want to risk offending the powers that be.
6. He may have a commercial interest in soaring and does not want to risk his business base, but has personal feelings.
7. He may be a director of the ssa who is seeking to go against the flow and to affect change, but is running into the establishment.
8. he may just be a member who is genuinely ****ed off at the way things have gone and who has reached the point of speaking out and "tipping at windmills" a la Don Quixote.


THE TEN TOP REASONS WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS NAME TO HIS POSTS

10. HE IS REALLY JUDGE JUDY

9. HE IS A US REPRESENTATIVE, RECENTLY IN THE NEWS, AND WOULD LIKE TO
WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN SOARING

8. HE IS REALLY A PAGE WHO WORKED FOR THE ABOVE REFERRED TO
CONGRESSMAN.

7. HE IS DOUG JACOBS

6. HE OWNS THREE MAJOR SORING OPERATIONS IN THE US AND DOES NOT WANT
TO JEOPARDIZE THE MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS HE IS MAKING

5. HE IS REALLY A SHE - NAMELY DIANNE BLACK-NIXON

4. HE IS DENNIS WRIGHT

3. HE IS A RAG HEAD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TRYING TO CAUSE TROUBLE IN
THE US

2. HE IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SSA FOUNDATION AND WANTS TO KEEP THAT MONEY
FOR HIMSELF

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS POSTS IS:

1. HE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS, LOUD MOUTHED MEMBER OFTHE SSA WHO REALLY
IS A CHICKEN**** GUTLESS
COWARD WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE CONVICTION NOR COURAGE NOR BALLS TO
SIGN HIS POSTS!!

Warmest Regards to All,

Frank Reid

Brad,

I too am appalled by some of the personal attacks and trash talk on ras. I
usually don't respond and wouldn't go out of my way to associate with those
who engage in such behavior.

However, I don't think it fair to characterize people with expensive toys as
all having big egos. I have a number wealthy friends in soaring. Without
exception they are as nice a people as one could hope to meet. Sure, I know
of a few "egos" out there too, but they truly are the exception.

It is fair to say that most of the expensive glider owners are or where
successful in their careers and have above average intelligence . . . but
that's probably also true of glider owners, as a whole. Some tend towards
being assertive, self confident, maybe even a bit eccentric (I've been
accused of that). Altogether an interesting group and a pleasure to
associate with.

bumper
ASH26E
Minden, NV

"Brad" wrote in message
ups.com...
Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK


wrote:
Ok, having lurked, read, or mulled over all that is being written I do
need to say this last post is what is bad about RAS and this internet
stuff. Would you in a public meeting, use this kind of language to
persuade others? I know almost no one personally on this group, yet I
know who I would at least listen to if I met them. This is language I
hear at school and have to correct all the time...since most kids have
very limited verbal skills when making emotional comments. A little
skunk one said if ya can't say nothin nice, then don't say nothin at
all. Voice your concerns, leave the poor language to the people that
can think of no other way to express themselves.

Larry Johnson SSA member
Frank Reid wrote:
5-BG wrote:
There are MANY reasons that a poster to this board might nor want
to sign his name.
1. He may be a sitting judge.
2. he may be a local or national politician with an interest in
soaring who does not want this issue to be introduced by his
political opponents.
3. He may be a political staffer or appointee who , by way of his
position, may have some distant possible conflict should his
principal be called upon to enact legislation revelant to the SSA.
4. He may be an ssa member who works for the IRS, the NM tax people
or the NM ag.. who wants to send an unofficial message to the
membership of the ssa that the **** is about to hit the fan.
5. he may be a pilot who is seeking a berth on the national team who
does not want to risk offending the powers that be.
6. He may have a commercial interest in soaring and does not want to
risk his business base, but has personal feelings.
7. He may be a director of the ssa who is seeking to go against the
flow and to affect change, but is running into the establishment.
8. he may just be a member who is genuinely ****ed off at the way
things have gone and who has reached the point of speaking out and
"tipping at windmills" a la Don Quixote.


THE TEN TOP REASONS WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS NAME TO HIS POSTS

10. HE IS REALLY JUDGE JUDY

9. HE IS A US REPRESENTATIVE, RECENTLY IN THE NEWS, AND WOULD LIKE TO
WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN SOARING

8. HE IS REALLY A PAGE WHO WORKED FOR THE ABOVE REFERRED TO
CONGRESSMAN.

7. HE IS DOUG JACOBS

6. HE OWNS THREE MAJOR SORING OPERATIONS IN THE US AND DOES NOT WANT
TO JEOPARDIZE THE MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS HE IS MAKING

5. HE IS REALLY A SHE - NAMELY DIANNE BLACK-NIXON

4. HE IS DENNIS WRIGHT

3. HE IS A RAG HEAD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TRYING TO CAUSE TROUBLE IN
THE US

2. HE IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SSA FOUNDATION AND WANTS TO KEEP THAT MONEY
FOR HIMSELF

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS POSTS IS:

1. HE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS, LOUD MOUTHED MEMBER OFTHE SSA WHO REALLY
IS A CHICKEN**** GUTLESS
COWARD WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE CONVICTION NOR COURAGE NOR BALLS TO
SIGN HIS POSTS!!

Warmest Regards to All,

Frank Reid

Hi Brad,
I have flown thermals with several Directors, and wouldn't hesitate
flying with them again. I know one Director who can't afford a ship
right now. The ones I know personally are nice people who are working
their behind off to save our organization.

Have you read the committee notes? What have you contributed to soaring?

Mike Green

Brad wrote:
Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK


wrote:

Ok, having lurked, read, or mulled over all that is being written I do
need to say this last post is what is bad about RAS and this internet
stuff. Would you in a public meeting, use this kind of language to
persuade others? I know almost no one personally on this group, yet I
know who I would at least listen to if I met them. This is language I
hear at school and have to correct all the time...since most kids have
very limited verbal skills when making emotional comments. A little
skunk one said if ya can't say nothin nice, then don't say nothin at
all. Voice your concerns, leave the poor language to the people that
can think of no other way to express themselves.

Larry Johnson SSA member
Frank Reid wrote:

5-BG wrote:

There are MANY reasons that a poster to this board might nor want to sign his name.
1. He may be a sitting judge.
2. he may be a local or national politician with an interest in soaring who does not want this issue to be introduced by his political opponents.
3. He may be a political staffer or appointee who , by way of his position, may have some distant possible conflict should his principal be called upon to enact legislation revelant to the SSA.
4. He may be an ssa member who works for the IRS, the NM tax people or the NM ag.. who wants to send an unofficial message to the membership of the ssa that the **** is about to hit the fan.
5. he may be a pilot who is seeking a berth on the national team who does not want to risk offending the powers that be.
6. He may have a commercial interest in soaring and does not want to risk his business base, but has personal feelings.
7. He may be a director of the ssa who is seeking to go against the flow and to affect change, but is running into the establishment.
8. he may just be a member who is genuinely ****ed off at the way things have gone and who has reached the point of speaking out and "tipping at windmills" a la Don Quixote.


THE TEN TOP REASONS WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS NAME TO HIS POSTS

10. HE IS REALLY JUDGE JUDY

9. HE IS A US REPRESENTATIVE, RECENTLY IN THE NEWS, AND WOULD LIKE TO
WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN SOARING

8. HE IS REALLY A PAGE WHO WORKED FOR THE ABOVE REFERRED TO
CONGRESSMAN.

7. HE IS DOUG JACOBS

6. HE OWNS THREE MAJOR SORING OPERATIONS IN THE US AND DOES NOT WANT
TO JEOPARDIZE THE MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS HE IS MAKING

5. HE IS REALLY A SHE - NAMELY DIANNE BLACK-NIXON

4. HE IS DENNIS WRIGHT

3. HE IS A RAG HEAD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TRYING TO CAUSE TROUBLE IN
THE US

2. HE IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SSA FOUNDATION AND WANTS TO KEEP THAT MONEY
FOR HIMSELF

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS POSTS IS:

1. HE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS, LOUD MOUTHED MEMBER OFTHE SSA WHO REALLY
IS A CHICKEN**** GUTLESS
COWARD WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE CONVICTION NOR COURAGE NOR BALLS TO
SIGN HIS POSTS!!

Warmest Regards to All,

Frank Reid

Mike I Green wrote:
Hi Brad,
I have flown thermals with several Directors, and wouldn't hesitate
flying with them again. I know one Director who can't afford a ship
right now. The ones I know personally are nice people who are working
their behind off to save our organization.

Mike, If I may join in here,I dont doubt that the directors you know
are great people.I am impressed by by my R.D.(Reigon 9).But, it only
takes the poor conduct of one individual like Frank Reid to cast a
shadow on the whole bunch.Look back at his post.He makes light of child
molestation, he is racist, and he takes unwaranted pot shots at SSA
directors.I personally wouldnt want to be in the same airspace with the
guy.

Have you read the committee notes? What have you contributed to soaring?

Mike, in my humble opinion, Brad's post was not so much about
contributing as it was taking away.Frank Reid's conduct makes all of us
look bad and takes away from the sport.



Mike Green

K. Urban

Mike Green:

"What have you contributed to soaring?"

I've contributed $64, the cost of a yearly membership to the SSA. AOPA
costs $39, EAA costs $40 and the fine aviation magazine (and membership
to the Smithsonian Institution) Air and Space cost $24.

What is my point? All of these organizations exist to serve their
members. A prevailing attitude here seems to be that the members of
SSA exist to serve the SSA. This is a recipe for disaster and a very
poor business plan.

Did it ever occur to you that some people in the soaring community
might not have the time to volunteer to the SSA or to soaring outside
of their own personal involvement? People have families and other
responsibilities. Did it occur to you that some people may already be
volunteering their precious time to other more worthy causes, charities
or activities. Things like helping the elderly, poor, the sick, or
helping out with other civic, education or conservation organizations?

In my own case I work for a not for profit teaching and research
hospital where I do cancer research. I feel that I'm making an
important contribution to society and my community during my day job.
On the weekends I want a leisure activity and I don't feel that I'm
obligated to "give anything back" to soaring except for flying safe and
being responsible.

Since the SSA and many of the members here obviously feel that the
members exist to serve SSA and not the other way around, it should not
be surprising that the SSA is having its current problems.

I have not flown a glider in years and have only kept up my membership
with the intent that I might one day become active again. I never did
find the soaring community to be very friendly especially if you
weren't a competition pilot and just flew around the flagpole like I
used to do. Anyone who denies that there is a caste system in soaring
is just fooling themselves.

I don't live anywhere near Bermuda Soaring and Frank Reid, but if I did
I would never go fly there or recommend the operation to any friend.
The membership of the SSA has been stagnant and my own observations is
that there is less and less activity at the fields where I used to fly.


So my contribution to soaring would be that it better wake up--the SSA
should take the view that it exists to serve its members and to provide
services and products that are worth $64.

I won't be renewing my SSA membership. The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy



Mike I Green wrote:
Hi Brad,
I have flown thermals with several Directors, and wouldn't hesitate
flying with them again. I know one Director who can't afford a ship
right now. The ones I know personally are nice people who are working
their behind off to save our organization.

Have you read the committee notes? What have you contributed to soaring?

Mike Green

Brad wrote:
Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK


wrote:

Ok, having lurked, read, or mulled over all that is being written I do
need to say this last post is what is bad about RAS and this internet
stuff. Would you in a public meeting, use this kind of language to
persuade others? I know almost no one personally on this group, yet I
know who I would at least listen to if I met them. This is language I
hear at school and have to correct all the time...since most kids have
very limited verbal skills when making emotional comments. A little
skunk one said if ya can't say nothin nice, then don't say nothin at
all. Voice your concerns, leave the poor language to the people that
can think of no other way to express themselves.

Larry Johnson SSA member
Frank Reid wrote:

5-BG wrote:

There are MANY reasons that a poster to this board might nor want to sign his name.
1. He may be a sitting judge.
2. he may be a local or national politician with an interest in soaring who does not want this issue to be introduced by his political opponents.
3. He may be a political staffer or appointee who , by way of his position, may have some distant possible conflict should his principal be called upon to enact legislation revelant to the SSA.
4. He may be an ssa member who works for the IRS, the NM tax people or the NM ag.. who wants to send an unofficial message to the membership of the ssa that the **** is about to hit the fan.
5. he may be a pilot who is seeking a berth on the national team who does not want to risk offending the powers that be.
6. He may have a commercial interest in soaring and does not want to risk his business base, but has personal feelings.
7. He may be a director of the ssa who is seeking to go against the flow and to affect change, but is running into the establishment.
8. he may just be a member who is genuinely ****ed off at the way things have gone and who has reached the point of speaking out and "tipping at windmills" a la Don Quixote.


THE TEN TOP REASONS WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS NAME TO HIS POSTS

10. HE IS REALLY JUDGE JUDY

9. HE IS A US REPRESENTATIVE, RECENTLY IN THE NEWS, AND WOULD LIKE TO
WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN SOARING

8. HE IS REALLY A PAGE WHO WORKED FOR THE ABOVE REFERRED TO
CONGRESSMAN.

7. HE IS DOUG JACOBS

6. HE OWNS THREE MAJOR SORING OPERATIONS IN THE US AND DOES NOT WANT
TO JEOPARDIZE THE MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS HE IS MAKING

5. HE IS REALLY A SHE - NAMELY DIANNE BLACK-NIXON

4. HE IS DENNIS WRIGHT

3. HE IS A RAG HEAD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TRYING TO CAUSE TROUBLE IN
THE US

2. HE IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SSA FOUNDATION AND WANTS TO KEEP THAT MONEY
FOR HIMSELF

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS POSTS IS:

1. HE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS, LOUD MOUTHED MEMBER OFTHE SSA WHO REALLY
IS A CHICKEN**** GUTLESS
COWARD WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE CONVICTION NOR COURAGE NOR BALLS TO
SIGN HIS POSTS!!

Warmest Regards to All,

Frank Reid

wrote in message
ups.com...
Mike Green:

I don't live anywhere near Bermuda Soaring and Frank Reid, but if I did
I would never go fly there

Then that would be your loss.

Frank's recent intemperate posts aside, Bermuda Soaring is one of the best
commercial soaring operations in the United States. Soaring needs commercial
operators like Frank and other entrepreneurs if it is going to survive. Every
one of them is putting their life and their future on the line for our sport,
which is hardly a growth market.

I have worked at a commercial soaring operation long enough to know the
challenges involved, and I have been to Business school, so I know a shaky
business plan when I see one. I know too much to ever go into the soaring
business, so I try to be nice to those optimistic people who do.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
Then that would be your loss.

Vaughn,
I find this imposible to imagine! I dont know what passes for
acceptable in your neck of the woods, but where I am from (out in So.
Cal.) we have a pretty diverse group of pilots, and any business owner
who goes about publicly making fun of molestation victims and using
racical slurs would find himself with a rapidly diminishing customer
base.

Bermuda Soaring is one of the best
commercial soaring operations in the United States. Soaring needs commercial
operators like Frank and other entrepreneurs if it is going to survive.

Frank's conduct is doing the sport no favors.I dont know which is
worse, F.R.'s conduct, or the guys like you and Brian G. who are
cheering him on.If a prominent business owner and former SSA director
goes off like this, how do you think it looks to the casual R.A.S.
lurker?We ALL should be denouncing his behavior, not encouraging it.

Each one of them is putting their life and their future on the line for our sport,
which is hardly a growth market.

Could the fact that soaring is hardly a growth market be due in part to
the caste system L.L. made mention of?

I have worked at a commercial soaring operation long enough to know the
challenges involved, and I have been to Business school, so I know a shaky
business plan when I see one. I know too much to ever go into the soaring
business, so I try to be nice to those optimistic people who do.

Vaughn, You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.If
you had to endure Frank's "Gutless Chicken****" speech in person, I
hardly think you would be nice to him.

Vaughn

K. Urban

KM

I think you better re-read my posts. I have been urging calm and civility,
and the means Frank Reid uses on her are not good. I may have siad I agreed
with some of his points, but not how he is going about it!!!

Brian G.
"KM" wrote in message
oups.com...

Vaughn Simon wrote:
Then that would be your loss.

Vaughn,
I find this imposible to imagine! I dont know what passes for
acceptable in your neck of the woods, but where I am from (out in So.
Cal.) we have a pretty diverse group of pilots, and any business owner
who goes about publicly making fun of molestation victims and using
racical slurs would find himself with a rapidly diminishing customer
base.

Bermuda Soaring is one of the best
commercial soaring operations in the United States. Soaring needs
commercial
operators like Frank and other entrepreneurs if it is going to survive.

Frank's conduct is doing the sport no favors.I dont know which is
worse, F.R.'s conduct, or the guys like you and Brian G. who are
cheering him on.If a prominent business owner and former SSA director
goes off like this, how do you think it looks to the casual R.A.S.
lurker?We ALL should be denouncing his behavior, not encouraging it.

Each one of them is putting their life and their future on the line for
our sport,
which is hardly a growth market.

Could the fact that soaring is hardly a growth market be due in part to
the caste system L.L. made mention of?

I have worked at a commercial soaring operation long enough to know
the
challenges involved, and I have been to Business school, so I know a
shaky
business plan when I see one. I know too much to ever go into the
soaring
business, so I try to be nice to those optimistic people who do.

Vaughn, You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.If
you had to endure Frank's "Gutless Chicken****" speech in person, I
hardly think you would be nice to him.

Vaughn

K. Urban

Brian Glick wrote:
KM

I think you better re-read my posts. I have been urging calm and civility,
and the means Frank Reid uses on her are not good. I may have siad I agreed
with some of his points, but not how he is going about it!!!

Brian, I did reread your post and here is a direct quote "I second what
Frank Reid said in just as strong of language".Kinda looks like you are
behind the guy and his conduct.Brian, I dont know what the standards
are in your part of the country, but it may come as a surprise to you
that this sport is not just limited to rich old white guys.I would
suggest that you distance yourself from racist ding dongs like Frank
Reid.

K Urban

:wrote

I never did find the soaring community
to be very friendly especially if you weren't
a competition pilot and just flew around the
flagpole like I used to do.

The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and
there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy
____________________________

Wow, I just had a Lennie flashback.

That isn't you, is it Lennie?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll
say "sorry" if you had an unpleasant
experience at a contest or in a club.

I've met many more nice/friendly people
involved in soaring than in many other
pursuits I've tried. Sure, there are a few
arrogant SOB's in every aspect of life
but for the most part glider pilots are a
decent group.

I hope you find a way to give the sport
another chance in the future.

Willie Geiselmann