NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

Neil Gould writes:

Your experience sounds to me more like a hardware problem than software.
For example, the continuous rebooting may be caused by an intermittent
ground connection to the G1000, causing its power to switch on and off.
Given that the panel was "hacked" by the same outfit that made the poorly
kludged aux tank system (a system that clearly does have a major design
flaw) and gave you the bogus operating instructions, I am far more
suspicious of them than Garmin. The G1000 was only the most obvious
indicator of a major problem somewhere in the aircraft.

Most reboots are caused by software. If the power were being switched
on and off, it would not be synchronized with the boot process.

If it were me, I wouldn't do such an interview, as there is no conclusion
about the real cause of the problems you experienced. To point the finger
on the basis of pure speculation would leave you vulnerable. As can be
seen from the discussion that this has generated, inuendo can go a long
way toward creating a lasting negative impression that has no basis in
fact -- yet.

On the other hand, it's hard to be too cautious, and publicity has a
way of giving the corporate world more of a conscience.

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Larry Dighera writes:

And it's reasonable that a small metal shaving
produced during the Garmin installation may have been dancing on a
circuit board someplace.

This is rather grasping at straws. The most obvious and common cause
of multiple reboots is bad software design.

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Dylan Smith writes:

Unless, of course, it was the power wiring. I suspect a momentary power
interruption could reboot a G1000.

It would not do so in synchronization with the software.

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Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Neil Gould writes:

Your experience sounds to me more like a hardware problem than
software. For example, the continuous rebooting may be caused by an
intermittent ground connection to the G1000, causing its power to
switch on and off. Given that the panel was "hacked" by the same
outfit that made the poorly kludged aux tank system (a system that
clearly does have a major design flaw) and gave you the bogus
operating instructions, I am far more suspicious of them than
Garmin. The G1000 was only the most obvious indicator of a major
problem somewhere in the aircraft.

Most reboots are caused by software. If the power were being switched
on and off, it would not be synchronized with the boot process.

The avionics in the aircraft that I fly reboot when they are powered off
then on. No synchronization required.

Of course, in the sims that you "fly", software is the *only* thing that
can cause a reboot, so it's understandable that you would arrive at that
such an opinion.

Neil

Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Dylan Smith writes:

Unless, of course, it was the power wiring. I suspect a momentary
power interruption could reboot a G1000.

It would not do so in synchronization with the software.

What gives you the impression that there was some "synchronization with
the software"? Nothing NW_Pilot reported would suggest it, and the
frequency and number of reboots implies something completely different.

Neil

"NW_Pilot" wrote in message
. ..

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

"NW_Pilot" wrote in message
. ..


After this Issue I think that there should be manual back up gauges and
instruments for the required equipment under FAR 91.205!


If I were flying the kind of flying you are doing I'd invest in a 496. It
would give you at lease some level of backup for almost everything in the
plane except radio and engine instruments.


I have a portable GPS that worked great! XM weather is almost useless out
side the U.S.


I was thinking more about the nav and GPS derived panel not the XM weather.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
John Theune writes:

and as had been pointed out by a number of people, there is no solid
evidence that make it clear that the reboots where caused by the out of
range sensor.

It doesn't matter what caused the reboots, because only defective
software reboots in the first place.

No a hardware problem could have also been the cause. An electrical short
caused by the "hacked" wiring sounds like an excellent place to start
looking.

The computer in cockpit is not foolproof. I can tell that there is at
least one Citation X where the computer simply shut down one engine
and left no trail of diagnostic data behnind, just empty memory.
Obviously you don't normally expect that sort of behavior from a
corporate jet...

They landed with one engine (no pilot overide) and the Cessna engineers
came out and did a lot of head scratching. I do not know what the final
diagnosis was on that one.

If indeed you are knowledgeable about Garmin software internals, I
appreciate your courage and your input on this topic.

On 5 Oct 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "g1000_eng"
wrote in . com:

I won't delve into the actual debate issues of whether to go glass,
realtime reliability vs. features demanded, benefits vs. risk of
various situational awareness methods, or anything like that.

Of course, the real issue is whether it's rational to rely on an
electronic system with a failure mode that is capable of leaving the
pilot with little else than three steam gages (AI, AS, Alt) and
magnetic compass, and taking out all communications, navigation,
engine instrumentation, and autopilot when it goes.

Perhaps you can confirm the loss of autopilot functionality when the
Garmin system goes off-line. If so, perhaps you can explain why the
autopilot is incapable of switching to being driven by the steam-gage
AI, and functioning as a wing leveler in that event. After all, if
the pilot is able to use the autopilot to keep the aircraft right side
up in the event of the Garmin system failure, he will be able to focus
much more of his attention on diagnosing the cause of the failure.

Dylan Smith wrote:


Go ahead and post. I can vouch for the credentials of at least 2 of the
wingmen.. I'm tryin to figure out who #4 was...


I was actually #4 in the Bonanza. We put the slowest plane first :-)
Keiran Smart was in the Tiger. I'm not sure who was in the 170 though!


I'd forgotten about Kieran.. and I MISS that tiger..

Just so nobody gets their underwear ruffled.. these guys regularly flew
together in dissimilar types and were based out of the same field.. I've
sat in on their briefings in the past. The other two.. we do know who
they are.. but they both fly for a living and dont need the press...

Anyways.. enough of hijacked threads

Dave