What to do?

If I see something, I will act appropriately... but what is appropriate?

Banging on the cockpit door during an approach is probably more trouble
than it's worth in this post 9/11 world. And being long on a approach
in VMC is far from an emergency.

On a 3 person flight from Newark to Albany one night, the flight crew
decided to do a max performance takeoff on one of Newark's 10,000'+
parallels. Full power with brakes, release, aggressive rotation, stall
horn, the whole bit. I didn't appreciate it but by the time I realized
what was going on, we were climbing into a crystal sky and all is well.

On a flight out of Houston one night, they couldn't get a cargo door
closed. They kept sending more bigger guys out to try to get the door
slammed shut. I guess I've been reading too many NTSB reports but after
too many tries at closing the door, I took a low profile walk up to the
cockpit and asked the crew if they were going to take a look at that
door if the ground crew was ever successful in getting it shut. They
told me no, and that someone on the ground was responsible for doing
that and it would be fine. I'm sure that was the right answer but I
elected to get off the plane, stay overnight at my expense and fly home
the next day. No one except the crew knew what happened but I swear
they looked a little spooked when I saw them lounging at the gate
awaiting further ministrations by the maintenance crew. Yes, they did
depart later and all was well.

I figure that once I've agreed to fly with someone, I'm going to play
cargo while they do the captain part unless I see something wrong and
can take appropriate action. OTOH, if I'm PIC and someone decides to
wrest control away from me or otherwise interfere with my
responsibilities, I'll nuke 'em. I'd expect the same.

Everett M. Greene wrote:
The ongoing "discussion" of the LEX accident reminds me
of an incident I experienced many years ago of potential
pilot error. I was a passenger on commercial flight on
a smaller airplane (make and model not recalled but it
was twin-engine turboprop). As we were making the
approach to land, I could see out the windshield and
noticed that we were overshooting the field on final.
Other observations indicated that whoever was doing the
piloting wasn't very good at it in the sense of at least
being lightly experienced. A question I pondered at
the time and since is whether I should have hollered
at the flight crew to correct the descent path or go
around. One doesn't want to panic the other passengers
needlessly but one also doesn't want to quietly be one
the first to arrive at the crash scene either.

I had much the same experience when flying back to Indiana for my mother's
funeral....and I had just read "The Rise and Fall of the DC-10," which dealt
directly with a cargo door. Maybe I was suicidal, but I didn't have the
luxury of time to take another flight.

Bob Gardner

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
...
If I see something, I will act appropriately... but what is appropriate?

Banging on the cockpit door during an approach is probably more trouble
than it's worth in this post 9/11 world. And being long on a approach in
VMC is far from an emergency.

On a 3 person flight from Newark to Albany one night, the flight crew
decided to do a max performance takeoff on one of Newark's 10,000'+
parallels. Full power with brakes, release, aggressive rotation, stall
horn, the whole bit. I didn't appreciate it but by the time I realized
what was going on, we were climbing into a crystal sky and all is well.

On a flight out of Houston one night, they couldn't get a cargo door
closed. They kept sending more bigger guys out to try to get the door
slammed shut. I guess I've been reading too many NTSB reports but after
too many tries at closing the door, I took a low profile walk up to the
cockpit and asked the crew if they were going to take a look at that door
if the ground crew was ever successful in getting it shut. They told me
no, and that someone on the ground was responsible for doing that and it
would be fine. I'm sure that was the right answer but I elected to get
off the plane, stay overnight at my expense and fly home the next day. No
one except the crew knew what happened but I swear they looked a little
spooked when I saw them lounging at the gate awaiting further
ministrations by the maintenance crew. Yes, they did depart later and all
was well.

I figure that once I've agreed to fly with someone, I'm going to play
cargo while they do the captain part unless I see something wrong and can
take appropriate action. OTOH, if I'm PIC and someone decides to wrest
control away from me or otherwise interfere with my responsibilities, I'll
nuke 'em. I'd expect the same.

Everett M. Greene wrote:
The ongoing "discussion" of the LEX accident reminds me
of an incident I experienced many years ago of potential
pilot error. I was a passenger on commercial flight on
a smaller airplane (make and model not recalled but it
was twin-engine turboprop). As we were making the
approach to land, I could see out the windshield and
noticed that we were overshooting the field on final.
Other observations indicated that whoever was doing the
piloting wasn't very good at it in the sense of at least
being lightly experienced. A question I pondered at
the time and since is whether I should have hollered
at the flight crew to correct the descent path or go
around. One doesn't want to panic the other passengers
needlessly but one also doesn't want to quietly be one
the first to arrive at the crash scene either.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
I had much the same experience when flying back to Indiana for my mother's
funeral....and I had just read "The Rise and Fall of the DC-10," which
dealt directly with a cargo door. Maybe I was suicidal, but I didn't have
the luxury of time to take another flight.

Regarding books on aviation "incidents", I discovered a way to get people
staring at you and muttering to each other. A few years ago we flew with KLM
from my home airport in the UK, via Amsterdam, to the US. In a bookshop at
the Amsterdam transfer gate I spotted a book of cockpit voice recorder
("black box") transcripts from well-known aviation accidents. Actually it
was hard to miss, as the cover was black and day-glo orange stripes (a bit
like the actual black box, I guess).

So I bought it and read it on the flight over the Atlantic. Oh, the weird
looks I got from some people ...

David C

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
...
On a 3 person flight from Newark to Albany one night, the flight crew
decided to do a max performance takeoff on one of Newark's 10,000'+
parallels. Full power with brakes, release, aggressive rotation, stall
horn, the whole bit. I didn't appreciate it but by the time I realized
what was going on, we were climbing into a crystal sky and all is well.

I had a kind of opposite experience a few months ago, on a Dash-8 (I think -
it was a little twin turboprop, anyhow) from Norwich to Manchester. They'd
already cancelled the Norwich-Edinburgh flights because it was too windy at
the destination (basically the further north in the UK you went, the windier
it got) and the verdict was that they'd have a go at the Manchester flight
because it wasn't as far north as Edinburgh and everything looked like it
would be within limits when we got there, and there were presumably some
sensible alternates available.

The approach to Manchester was tremendous fun for anyone who knew (a) how
crosswind landings were done and (b) that the pilot wouldn't be attempting
it if it wasn't within her or the aircraft's limits. For the uninitiated,
however, bumping down the approach with the right wing pointing markedly
downwards, then landing on the upwind wheel first provoked a large
collection of white knuckles and more than a few involuntary gasps!

David C