Beacons/anticollision lights and engines

RK Henry writes:

Yes it does. In the excerpt here, "Operate" means running the engines.

According to whom?

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On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:52:59 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

RK Henry writes:

Yes it does. In the excerpt here, "Operate" means running the engines.

According to whom?

1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:

"Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use or
authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in
§91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of
aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner,
lessee, or otherwise)."

If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd interpret
that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til the airplane
is back in the hangar. I suppose it could exclude running the engine
at the shop, since that's not for the purpose of air navigation, but
the mechanics usually turn on the beacon too.

2. The mention in the AIM about lights isn't regulatory, but it may as
well be. It's good operating practice, and a pilot ignoring good
operating practice could conceivably be caught by the catch-all
regulation, FAR 91.13, Careless or reckless operation. Especially if
someone got hurt. And of course, none of us wants anyone to get hurt.

Running the anti-collision system is low-cost insurance. Except for
cases like not operating strobes around people, it's better to just go
ahead and use it. It could save someone's life.

RK Henry

RK Henry writes:

1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:

"Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use or
authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in
§91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of
aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner,
lessee, or otherwise)."

I don't see the word "engine" anywhere in the quoted text--again.

It's best to read what regulations say, and not try to guess what
you'd like them to mean. Legal documents are generally explicit;
imagination is neither required nor recommended.

If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd interpret
that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til the airplane
is back in the hangar.

So it's your interpretation; it's not written in the regulations.

Running the anti-collision system is low-cost insurance. Except for
cases like not operating strobes around people, it's better to just go
ahead and use it. It could save someone's life.

I never expressed any objection to it.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
RK Henry writes:

1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:

"Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use or
authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in
§91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of
aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner,
lessee, or otherwise)."

I don't see the word "engine" anywhere in the quoted text--again.

It's best to read what regulations say, and not try to guess what
you'd like them to mean. Legal documents are generally explicit;
imagination is neither required nor recommended.

If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd interpret
that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til the airplane
is back in the hangar.

So it's your interpretation; it's not written in the regulations.



You are such a little cock wad. If you are starting the aircraft to fly
you are operating the aircraft.

601XL Builder wrote:
...
If you are starting the aircraft to fly
you are operating the aircraft.

Apparently less then even that. In the Florida state criminal
trial of the drunk airline pilots, they were stopped during the
pushback which they commanded before even starting the engines.
There was expert testimony, by either FAA or expert with prior
FAA exp, that the the mere authorization to push it back was
operating the aircraft for purpose of flight under FAA rules, and
therefore "operate" as one necessary element of the state crime
was there and the jury agreed.

F--

601XL Builder wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
RK Henry writes:

1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:

"Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use or
authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in
§91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of
aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner,
lessee, or otherwise)."

I don't see the word "engine" anywhere in the quoted text--again.

It's best to read what regulations say, and not try to guess what
you'd like them to mean. Legal documents are generally explicit;
imagination is neither required nor recommended.

If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd interpret
that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til the airplane
is back in the hangar.

So it's your interpretation; it's not written in the regulations.



You are such a little cock wad. If you are starting the aircraft to fly
you are operating the aircraft.

Personally, I think we should point him in the direction of the FAA. As
much as I hate to defend them, I think that they'd love to hear that
this particular reasonably well written reg is open to interpretation.

Emily writes:

... I think that they'd love to hear that
this particular reasonably well written reg is open to interpretation.

Except that I didn't say that. I said that someone has interpreted
the regulation, not that it is open to interpretation (quite the
opposite, generally).

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Actually the FAA means , in the paragraph you cited, that
"operate" means use an airplane in a business or otherwise
have the control of the airplane. It does not mean that the
engine is running.


"RK Henry" wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:52:59 +0200, Mxsmanic

| wrote:
|
| RK Henry writes:
|
| Yes it does. In the excerpt here, "Operate" means
running the engines.
|
| According to whom?
|
| 1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:
|
| "Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to
use or
| authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as
provided in
| §91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the
piloting of
| aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as
owner,
| lessee, or otherwise)."
|
| If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd
interpret
| that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til
the airplane
| is back in the hangar. I suppose it could exclude running
the engine
| at the shop, since that's not for the purpose of air
navigation, but
| the mechanics usually turn on the beacon too.
|
| 2. The mention in the AIM about lights isn't regulatory,
but it may as
| well be. It's good operating practice, and a pilot
ignoring good
| operating practice could conceivably be caught by the
catch-all
| regulation, FAR 91.13, Careless or reckless operation.
Especially if
| someone got hurt. And of course, none of us wants anyone
to get hurt.
|
| Running the anti-collision system is low-cost insurance.
Except for
| cases like not operating strobes around people, it's
better to just go
| ahead and use it. It could save someone's life.
|
| RK Henry

It means all that and more. It's an all-purpose definition intended to
be plugged into wherever the term is found in the regulations.

I found a source on AOPA's site. I won't reproduce it here, but AOPA
members can search for it as article 352. It says that the pilot must
turn on the anti-collision lights whenever he "operates" [their
quotes] the aircraft, which means every time he starts the engine. I
consider that a fairly authoritative source, though not as
authoritative as the FAA, of course.

RK Henry

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:09:14 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Actually the FAA means , in the paragraph you cited, that
"operate" means use an airplane in a business or otherwise
have the control of the airplane. It does not mean that the
engine is running.


"RK Henry" wrote in message
.. .
| On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:52:59 +0200, Mxsmanic

| wrote:
|
| RK Henry writes:
|
| Yes it does. In the excerpt here, "Operate" means
running the engines.
|
| According to whom?
|
| 1. In FARs part 1.1, Definitions, "Operate" is defined:
|
| "Operate, with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to
use or
| authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as
provided in
| §91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the
piloting of
| aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as
owner,
| lessee, or otherwise)."
|
| If you're planning on using the airplane for flying, I'd
interpret
| that as beginning with the moment you turn the key 'til
the airplane
| is back in the hangar. I suppose it could exclude running
the engine
| at the shop, since that's not for the purpose of air
navigation, but
| the mechanics usually turn on the beacon too.
|
| 2. The mention in the AIM about lights isn't regulatory,
but it may as
| well be. It's good operating practice, and a pilot
ignoring good
| operating practice could conceivably be caught by the
catch-all
| regulation, FAR 91.13, Careless or reckless operation.
Especially if
| someone got hurt. And of course, none of us wants anyone
to get hurt.
|
| Running the anti-collision system is low-cost insurance.
Except for
| cases like not operating strobes around people, it's
better to just go
| ahead and use it. It could save someone's life.
|
| RK Henry

RK Henry writes:

I found a source on AOPA's site. I won't reproduce it here, but AOPA
members can search for it as article 352. It says that the pilot must
turn on the anti-collision lights whenever he "operates" [their
quotes] the aircraft, which means every time he starts the engine. I
consider that a fairly authoritative source, though not as
authoritative as the FAA, of course.

AOPA has no enforcement or regulatory authority at all.

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