GA bias in "general" insurance?

Jay Honeck writes:

Why?

Wealthy people are more likely to buy their own aircraft, or to fly in
general aviation (as passengers or crew).

GA is a rich man's hobby, and some wealthy people depend on GA for
personal transportation.

Are you saying that there are a lot of dead pilots?

More than there should be, at least in general aviation.

--
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Are you saying that there are a lot of dead pilots?

More than there should be, at least in general aviation.

And this is based on...what?

Flying light airplanes carries about the same risk as riding a
motorcycle, statistically. I don't see any insurance companies that
exclude motorcycle riding, although I suppose they may exist.

As with riding, when flying you can make things MUCH safer by taking a
few relatively easy steps.

Or are you saying that rich people who use GA for transportation are,
to a large degree, doofuses, along the lines of the legendary
overworked Bonanza-pilot-doctors (thus the nick-name,
"Fork-Tailed-Doctor-Killer") who used to kill themselves with alarming
regularity?

(In case you didn't know, Bonanzas were the original Cirrus, meaning
that wealthy, busy, high-powered professionals often bought them, flew
them too little, but often under tight schedules. This occasionally
got them in deep doo-doo when they flew into conditions that exceeded
their limited skills under the reasoning that they "had" to make that
meeting.)

Personally, I don't think GA flying is prohibitively dangerous, or I
certainly wouldn't have put my family in the plane over 600 times.
You've just got to be vigilant and careful at all times.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

And this is based on...what?

The relatively high risk of GA, compared to commercial airlines.

Flying light airplanes carries about the same risk as riding a
motorcycle, statistically.

Riding a motorcycle is pretty risky.

As with riding, when flying you can make things MUCH safer by taking a
few relatively easy steps.

Yes, but the insurance company cannot be sure that you will take those
steps. And many people obviously don't, whence the high accident
rates.

Or are you saying that rich people who use GA for transportation are,
to a large degree, doofuses, along the lines of the legendary
overworked Bonanza-pilot-doctors (thus the nick-name,
"Fork-Tailed-Doctor-Killer") who used to kill themselves with alarming
regularity?

No. Rich people aren't any less intelligent than poor people.
However, having money provides access to general aviation,
irrespective of intelligence, so stupid rich people are more able to
fly than stupid poor people. Thus, one may encounter lots of stupid,
rich pilots.

In case you didn't know, Bonanzas were the original Cirrus, meaning
that wealthy, busy, high-powered professionals often bought them, flew
them too little, but often under tight schedules. This occasionally
got them in deep doo-doo when they flew into conditions that exceeded
their limited skills under the reasoning that they "had" to make that
meeting.

And in so doing they skewed the safety statistics for general
aviation. People like Cory Lidle, John Denver, and John F. Kennedy,
Jr., are still doing that today.

Personally, I don't think GA flying is prohibitively dangerous, or I
certainly wouldn't have put my family in the plane over 600 times.
You've just got to be vigilant and careful at all times.

I agree. Take good care of your plane and good care of yourself, and
be careful and cautious even when it's inconvenient, and the risk of
flying will be very low indeed. Under such conditions I certainly
wouldn't hesitate to put my family in a plane. But careless pilots
flying ill-maintained aircraft are just asking for trouble.

I think one big part of it is that, in general aviation, you cannot
simply jump into the plane and fly whenever you wish ... not if you
want to be safe, at least. If the weather is unsuitable, or if
there's any problem with the aircraft, you have to wait. But some
people don't like to wait.

--
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I think one big part of it is that, in general aviation, you cannot
simply jump into the plane and fly whenever you wish ... not if you
want to be safe, at least. If the weather is unsuitable, or if
there's any problem with the aircraft, you have to wait. But some
people don't like to wait.

Well put. In fact, with that paragraph I believe you have summed up
the reason for the majority of GA crashes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:54:43 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

And in so doing they skewed the safety statistics for general
aviation. People like Cory Lidle, John Denver, and John F. Kennedy,
Jr., are still doing that today.

Lidle and Kennedy are classic cases of inexperienced pilots goofing in
their new planes. John Denver was a very experienced pilot who goofed
flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

-Dana
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Dana,

John Denver was a very experienced pilot who goofed
flying an unfamiliar aircraft.


John Denver was not a certificated pilot at the time of his crash,
IIRC. Let alone an experienced one.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
John Denver was a very experienced pilot who goofed
flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

John Denver was not a certificated pilot at the time of his crash,
IIRC. Let alone an experienced one.

You recall incorrectly. From the NTSB report, Denver had nearly 3000 hours
of flight time at the time of his fatal accident, holding a Private Pilot
certificate with airplane ratings for single- and multi-engine land,
single-engine sea, and gliders, as well as a Lear Jet type rating and an
instrument airplane rating.

I'm not sure what you consider "a certificated pilot" or "an experienced
one", but I'd say by most standards he was both.

Pete

Peter,

You recall incorrectly. From the NTSB report,

I recall half-correctly. The FAA had revoked his medical and asked him to send
in his certificate because of alcohol abuse. Whether any of the two letters
the FAA sent to that effect reached him is unclear (but I have an idea about
how it might have been handled). But, as it says in the NTSB report: "The
letter informs the pilot that based on the above information, he did not meet
the medical standards prescribed in Part 67 of the Federal Aviation
Regulations, and a determination was made that he was not qualified for any
class of medical certificate at that time."

I would thus modify my statement to say that he was not legal to fly as a
pilot in command at the time of the flight. A pilot needs a certificate AND a
medical for that.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

He's probably referring to the story that he was supposed to have turned in
his certificate for a drunk driving charge, IIRC.

mike

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
John Denver was a very experienced pilot who goofed
flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

John Denver was not a certificated pilot at the time of his crash,
IIRC. Let alone an experienced one.

You recall incorrectly. From the NTSB report, Denver had nearly 3000
hours of flight time at the time of his fatal accident, holding a Private
Pilot certificate with airplane ratings for single- and multi-engine land,
single-engine sea, and gliders, as well as a Lear Jet type rating and an
instrument airplane rating.

I'm not sure what you consider "a certificated pilot" or "an experienced
one", but I'd say by most standards he was both.

Pete

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:53:42 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

GA is a rich man's hobby, and some wealthy people depend on GA for
personal transportation.

I beg to differ. Yes, you can spend a LOT of money at the upper end
(and yes, even the middle) of the GA spectrum, but you can also buy a
good used plane for less than the price of the average new car... and
a lot less than "average" guys spend on boats. Airplanes hold their
value far better, too.

Is this perceived high cost of aviation what keeps you in your
basement playing sims?

-Dana
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If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
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Resist militant "normality" -- A mind is a terrible thing to erase.