IFR in the Eastern Mountains

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say, ...*ONE LITTLE
snip

"Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called for.

Jose
--
And always remember............

You can't get laid if you're dead!

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

You can be laid to rest.



"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jose" wrote in message
| t...
| Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say,
....*ONE LITTLE
| snip
|
| "Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called
for.
|
| Jose
| --
| And always remember............
|
| You can't get laid if you're dead!
|
| Karl
| "Curator" N185KG
|
|

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:10:14 -0400, "Kobra"
wrote:

My wife loves flying with me and she sees a trip in the airplane as a major
treat. We have flown together everywhere from Maine to the Bahamas. She is
also going to start lessons this Spring and she began the Cleared for
Takeoff CD ground school course.

Bahamas? What was the DVD for that like? Did it say anything about the
possibility of having to swim?

I live in the Eastern Mountains and have done most of my training and
flying here (TRI). These mountains should not be underestimated, but
they should not be objects of mindless fear. There are unique weather
conditions to be considered, but they're more of a problem for the VFR
pilot. Particular attention should be given to wind. A proficient IFR
pilot adhering to procedures should have little difficulty.

I've never been to Hot Springs, though I've flown over the area. I'm
more afraid of the prices than of the airport.

RK Henry

Kobra wrote:

As others state, why did you share it in the first place?


My wife loves flying with me and she sees a trip in the airplane as a major
treat. We have flown together everywhere from Maine to the Bahamas. She is
also going to start lessons this Spring and she began the Cleared for
Takeoff CD ground school course.

Whenever I buy a training DVD, as dry as they can be, she is excited to
watch them with me. I am lucky this way. But my only point to Mr. Collins
is that if you are going to immortalize your words on mass media about an
important subject near and dear, for God's sake, MAKE YOUR POINT, BUT CHOOSE
YOUR WORDS WITH SOME FORETHOUGHT.

Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say, ...*ONE LITTLE
MISTAKE WILL PUT ALL YOUR LIGHTS OUT?* I don't think Barry Schiff, Rod
Machado or John King would blunder their words like that. I sense they have
more discretion and sophistication.

Don't get me wrong...I do like and respect Mr. Collins. I have most of his
videos, I read his articles in Flying Magazine and I admire him as an
aviator. I just think he needs to sand and polish some of his writings
before he commits them to permanency.

I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the east is serious
business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if you can't take
the heat...


Matt

: I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the east is serious
: business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if you can't take
: the heat...

Absolutely. With MEAs over WV around 6000', that pretty much rules out all
but thin stratus into VFR-on-top IFR days from October through April.

The mountain wave and turbulence should also not be underestimated. I've been
in VFR over BKW (Beckly, WV... only about 50 miles from my home base). I hit a layer
of IMC at about 6000', but there was plenty of VMC below. I got a clearance for
"practice." Within 10 minutes, my groundspeed went from about 100 kts to 55 kts, and
I was getting +-500fpm no matter what power settings I tried to use. At one point I
was in clear VMC and plenty of room below so I cancelled and flew the last 20 miles
VFR in 2500' ceilings.

VFR in only more dangerous in the "average" sense that a lot of the clear
weather might be associated with highs and gusty winds. IMC can also have ugly winds,
and the sink associated with the ridges can make a mess of you too.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

IFR with mountains obscured and MEA above 6000 feet makes
single-engine and light multiengine a difficult trip since
loss of an engine will put you in the strato or
cumulogranite clouds. You can fly the light twin at cruise
several thousand feet above the MEA and drift down while
proceeding to a landing. But a plan is required.



wrote in message
...
|: I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the
east is serious
| : business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if
you can't take
| : the heat...
|
| Absolutely. With MEAs over WV around 6000', that pretty
much rules out all
| but thin stratus into VFR-on-top IFR days from October
through April.
|
| The mountain wave and turbulence should also not be
underestimated. I've been
| in VFR over BKW (Beckly, WV... only about 50 miles from my
home base). I hit a layer
| of IMC at about 6000', but there was plenty of VMC below.
I got a clearance for
| "practice." Within 10 minutes, my groundspeed went from
about 100 kts to 55 kts, and
| I was getting +-500fpm no matter what power settings I
tried to use. At one point I
| was in clear VMC and plenty of room below so I cancelled
and flew the last 20 miles
| VFR in 2500' ceilings.
|
| VFR in only more dangerous in the "average" sense that a
lot of the clear
| weather might be associated with highs and gusty winds.
IMC can also have ugly winds,
| and the sink associated with the ridges can make a mess of
you too.
|
| -Cory
|
| --
|
|
************************************************** ***********************
| * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA
*
| * Electrical Engineering
*
| * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
*
|
************************************************** ***********************
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
: IFR with mountains obscured and MEA above 6000 feet makes
: single-engine and light multiengine a difficult trip since
: loss of an engine will put you in the strato or
: cumulogranite clouds. You can fly the light twin at cruise
: several thousand feet above the MEA and drift down while
: proceeding to a landing. But a plan is required.

I wouldn't say that particularly makes the trip "difficult." It does change
the risk management equation somewhat but that's not necessarily a "go/no-go"
dealbreaker for many people. Many folks will argue that single-engine IMC or
single-engine night is suicide, but thousands do it daily.

Flying in IMC with the freezing level lower than the ceilings and MEAs is a
significantly higher weighted risk than single-engine failure over the mountains.
That's why for me I feel the latter is an acceptable risk, but the former is not in my
light single.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

I flew a lot of 135, we had to be able to maintain the MEA
on one engine.

What I was pointing out was that two engines don't alter the
safety factor unless you can maintain the MEA and that is an
ice free altitude [thanks for adding that]. Over Kansas, at
night, the forced landing has a 99% chance of coming down on
fairly level ground. Over mountains you may just hit a
vertical wall.


wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| : IFR with mountains obscured and MEA above 6000 feet
makes
| : single-engine and light multiengine a difficult trip
since
| : loss of an engine will put you in the strato or
| : cumulogranite clouds. You can fly the light twin at
cruise
| : several thousand feet above the MEA and drift down while
| : proceeding to a landing. But a plan is required.
|
| I wouldn't say that particularly makes the trip
"difficult." It does change
| the risk management equation somewhat but that's not
necessarily a "go/no-go"
| dealbreaker for many people. Many folks will argue that
single-engine IMC or
| single-engine night is suicide, but thousands do it daily.
|
| Flying in IMC with the freezing level lower than the
ceilings and MEAs is a
| significantly higher weighted risk than single-engine
failure over the mountains.
| That's why for me I feel the latter is an acceptable risk,
but the former is not in my
| light single.
|
| -Cory
|
| --
|
|
************************************************** ***********************
| * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA
*
| * Electrical Engineering
*
| * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
*
|
************************************************** ***********************
|

: What I was pointing out was that two engines don't alter the
: safety factor unless you can maintain the MEA and that is an
: ice free altitude [thanks for adding that]. Over Kansas, at
: night, the forced landing has a 99% chance of coming down on
: fairly level ground. Over mountains you may just hit a
: vertical wall.

True enough. All I was saying is that the chances of getting in trouble by
ignoring something like the MEA's vs. icing is a lot more likely than a single-engine
failure in a single... whether in low IMC over the mountains or not. Just flying over
mountains in IMC doesn't increase the chances of having an engine failure (it just
make you THINK about it more...

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************