Another SR22

Ron Lee wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:17:49 -0700, Terry wrote
in :

What's with the SR22 crashes? Another one went down Arizona yesterday.


It looks like that slick wing doesn't like ice:
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...a/01_121LD.txt

Sounds like pilot stupidity. Wasn't he aware that the parachute
system offers to save them from doing other stupid things like flying
into icing conditions?

The parachute system absolves the pilot of being responsible and
making sound judgments about when to fly or not fly BUT they must know
when to activate the parachute.

Why would you jump to that conclusion? Maybe he thought that he could
descend into a nearby airport. According to Flightaware, he was going
from Reno (KRNO) to Lake Tahoe (KTVL). The flight path ends near
either Carson (KCXP), which has a 5900' runway, or Minden (KMEV), which
has a 7400' runway. There are at least these other possibilities:

1) I think the Cirrus POH indicates to deploy CAPS in the event a safe
landing cannot be made. If the pilot thought that he could keep his
speed up and get into KCXP or KMEV, he may have been tempted to attempt
a landing and stalled with no chance of recovery, such as in a steep
turn. CAPS is to be used as a last resort, such as in complete IMC or
inhospitable terrain.

2) CAPS can be deployed only after getting the speed down to about 133
knots. His cruise speed would probably have been about 180 knots. If
he decided to deploy the CAPS, his wing may have stalled while he
attempted to get his airspeed down to CAPS deployment speed.

3) He may have been above Lake Tahoe, which is big, deep, and cold. If
I thought the plane is flyable, I'd probably head close to shore before
pulling the CAPS handle as I'm not sufficiently confident of my ability
to swim long distances or tread extremely cold water for an extended
period.

He may have been stupid in departing into known icing, but I didn't
check yesterday's METARs or PIREPs in the area, and so don't know
whether icing was forecast or known. However, we don't yet know why he
didn't pull the 'chute handle and so can't yet call him stupid for that.

rps wrote:
Ron Lee wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:

3) He may have been above Lake Tahoe, which is big, deep, and cold. If
I thought the plane is flyable, I'd probably head close to shore before
pulling the CAPS handle as I'm not sufficiently confident of my ability
to swim long distances or tread extremely cold water for an extended
period.

I'll retract the third possibility as Flightaware clearly shows that he
was not over the lake.

"rps" wrote in message
oups.com...

He may have been stupid in departing into known icing, but I didn't
check yesterday's METARs or PIREPs in the area, and so don't know
whether icing was forecast or known. However, we don't yet know why he
didn't pull the 'chute handle and so can't yet call him stupid for that.


WAUS45 KKCI 251345 SLCZ WA 251345 AIRMET ZULU UPDT 2 FOR ICE AND FRZLVL
VALID UNTIL 252000 AIRMET ICE...ID MT WY NV UT CO AZ NM FROM GTF TO 20WNW
MLS TO AKO TO TBE TO INW TO ELY TO BOI TO GTF OCNL MOD RIME/MXD ICGICIP BTN
FRZLVL AND FL200. FRZLVLS 050-080 OVR NRN AND WRN PTNS AREA RSG TO 100-120
OVR SRN AND ERN PTS. CONDS SPRDG NEWD DURG PD...CONTG BYD 20Z THRU 02Z.
ELSW...NO SGFNT ICE EXP OUTSIDE CNVTV ACT. FRZLVL...SFC-080...N AND W OF
FMG-OAL-BCE-JAC-BOY-GGW LN  ...080-120...N AND W OF BZA-TCS-LVS-DEN-MCK LN
 ...120-140...S AND E OF BZA-TCS-LVS-DEN-MCK LN ..

WAUS45 KKCI 251945 SLCZ WA 251945 AIRMET ZULU UPDT 3 FOR ICE AND FRZLVL
VALID UNTIL 260200 AIRMET ICE...ID MT WY NV UT CO AZ NM FROM HLN TO MLS TO
CYS TO LVS TO 20W SJN TO PGS TO TWF TO HLN OCNL MOD RIME/MXD ICGICIP BTN
FRZLVL AND FL220. FRZLVLS 050-080 OVR NRN AND WRN PTNS AREA RSG TO 100-120
OVR SRN AND ERN PTNS. CONDS SPRDG NEWD DURG PD...CONTG BYD 02Z THRU 08Z.
ELSW...NO SGFNT ICE EXP OUTSIDE CNVTV ACT. FRZLVL...SFC-080...N AND W OF
FMG-OAL-BCE-JAC-BOY-GGW LN  ...080-120...N AND W OF BZA-TCS-LVS-DEN-MCK LN
 ...120-140...S AND E OF BZA-TCS-LVS-DEN-MCK LN ....

METAR KHND 251856Z 03011KT 10SM CLR 21/05 A3001 RMK AO2 T02110050 SLP129

METAR KIGM 251859Z AUTO 23018G21KT 10SM CLR 19/10 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP108
T01890100 TSNO

METAR KINS 251856Z AUTO 35010G15KT 10SM BKN085 18/M08 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP149
T01831083

METAR KDRA 251853Z 03013KT 10SM FEW070 SCT090 19/M11 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP150
T01891106

rps wrote: brevity snip

2) CAPS can be deployed only after getting the speed down to about 133
knots. His cruise speed would probably have been about 180 knots. If
he decided to deploy the CAPS, his wing may have stalled while he
attempted to get his airspeed down to CAPS deployment speed.

I've never flown in icing conditions... but ISTM he'd be able to slow
his airspeed to 133kts. via the elevator and flaps... as long as the
wing was still flying, that is. The Cirrus site mentions CAPS has been
"flight tested -to- 135kts".

The POH reads: Once the decision is made to deploy CAPS, the following
actions
should be taken:
1. Airspeed.......MINIMUM POSSIBLE

The maximum demonstrated deployment speed is 133 KIAS.
Reducing airspeed allows minimum parachute loads and prevents
structural overload and possible parachute failure.
http://www.cirrusdesign.com/servicec...InfoManual.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/sz3sj

No mention that CAPS -can't- or -won't- deploy above 133kts.

However, we don't yet know why he
didn't pull the 'chute handle and so can't yet call him stupid for that.

We don't yet know if he yanked the handle and it didn't deploy. Also
from the POH:

· WARNING ·
Jerking or rapidly pulling the activation T-handle will greatly
increase the pull forces required to activate the rocket. Use a firm
and steady pulling motion - a "chin-up" type pull enhances
successful activation.

Pretty tough to remember -that- as the ground is rushing toward you and
the cabin is filling with odors, I'll bet...
-----

- gpsman

On 26 Oct 2006 10:03:56 -0700, "gpsman" wrote
in .com:

http://www.cirrusdesign.com/servicec...22/pdf/20880-=
001InfoManual.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/sz3sj

Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On 26 Oct 2006 10:03:56 -0700, "gpsman" wrote
in .com:

http://www.cirrusdesign.com/servicec...22/pdf/20880-=
001InfoManual.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/sz3sj

Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual


CAPS Deployment

The Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) should be activated in

the event of a life-threatening emergency where CAPS deployment is

determined to be safer than continued flight and landing.

.. WARNING .

CAPS deployment is expected to result in loss of the airframe

and, depending upon adverse external factors such as high

deployment speed, low altitude, rough terrain or high wind

conditions, may result in severe injury or death to the

occupants. Because of this, CAPS should only be activated

when any other means of handling the emergency would not

protect the occupants from serious injury.

.. Caution .

Expected impact in a fully stabilized deployment is equivalent

to a drop from approximately 13 feet.

.. Note .

Several possible scenarios in which the activation of the

CAPS would be appropriate are discussed in Section 10 -

Safety Information, of this Handbook. These include:

.. Mid-air collision

.. Structural failure

.. Loss of control

.. Landing in inhospitable terrain

.. Pilot incapacitation

All pilots should carefully review the information on CAPS

activation and deployment in Section 10 before operating the

airplane.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:56:50 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual

[excerpt deleted]

Thank you.

What does the POH say about CAPS deployment for spin recovery?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:56:50 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual

[excerpt deleted]

Thank you.

What does the POH say about CAPS deployment for spin recovery?


You know Larry the URL for the manual was in the upstream post but since I
downloaded the whole book.

Spins

The SR22 is not approved for spins, and has not been tested or

certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and

demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus

Airframe Parachute System (See CAPS Deployment, this section).

Because of this, if the aircraft "departs controlled flight," the CAPS

must be deployed.

While the stall characteristics of the SR22 make accidental entry into a

spin extremely unlikely, it is possible. Spin entry can be avoided by

using good airmanship: coordinated use of controls in turns, proper

airspeed control following the recommendations of this Handbook, and

never abusing the flight controls with accelerated inputs when close to

the stall (see Stalls, Section 4).

If, at the stall, the controls are misapplied and abused accelerated

inputs are made to the elevator, rudder and/or ailerons, an abrupt wing

drop may be felt and a spiral or spin may be entered. In some cases it

may be difficult to determine if the aircraft has entered a spiral or the

beginning of a spin.

.. WARNING .

In all cases, if the aircraft enters an unusual attitude from

which recovery is not expected before ground impact,

immediate deployment of the CAPS is required.

The minimum demonstrated altitude loss for a CAPS

deployment from a one-turn spin is 920 feet. Activation at

higher altitudes provides enhanced safety margins for

parachute recoveries. Do not waste time and altitude trying to

recover from a spiral/spin before activating CAPS.

Inadvertent Spin Entry

1.
CAPS.............................................. ...................................
Activate

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:36:26 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:56:50 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual

[excerpt deleted]

Thank you.

What does the POH say about CAPS deployment for spin recovery?


You know Larry the URL for the manual was in the upstream post but since I
downloaded the whole book.

Thank you for the information.

Spins

The SR22 is not approved for spins, and has not been tested or

certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and

demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus

Airframe Parachute System (See CAPS Deployment, this section).

Because of this, if the aircraft "departs controlled flight," the CAPS

must be deployed.

While the stall characteristics of the SR22 make accidental entry into a

spin extremely unlikely, it is possible. Spin entry can be avoided by

using good airmanship: coordinated use of controls in turns, proper

airspeed control following the recommendations of this Handbook, and

never abusing the flight controls with accelerated inputs when close to

the stall (see Stalls, Section 4).

If, at the stall, the controls are misapplied and abused accelerated

inputs are made to the elevator, rudder and/or ailerons, an abrupt wing

drop may be felt and a spiral or spin may be entered. In some cases it

may be difficult to determine if the aircraft has entered a spiral or the

beginning of a spin.

. WARNING .

In all cases, if the aircraft enters an unusual attitude from

which recovery is not expected before ground impact,

immediate deployment of the CAPS is required.

The minimum demonstrated altitude loss for a CAPS

deployment from a one-turn spin is 920 feet. Activation at

higher altitudes provides enhanced safety margins for

parachute recoveries. Do not waste time and altitude trying to

recover from a spiral/spin before activating CAPS.

Inadvertent Spin Entry


That seems to confirm, that the CAPS was required to the meet spin
recovery requirements for FAA certification of the SR22.

But if the aircraft is below 1,000', the CAPS system is probably not
an option.

Thank you again for providing the SR22 POH quotes.