Common instruments on small aircraft

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...
Wade Hasbrouck wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote
If you have understanding passengers, fine. If they are going to a
wedding or job interview, though, this is a serious problem.

Again you are inferring that the Private Pilot can ignore FAR Part 91 and
FAR 61.113 when they want to help out friends. If a friend comes to me
and
says "I have a wedding or job interview to go to, could you fly me
there?",
this would most likely be considered a violation of 61.113, and would be
illegal for a Private Pilot to do.

That's absurd. Someone asking to be flown somewhere is in no way a
violation of the FARs. If it were, most GA pilots would be in violation
almost every time they fly.

Bart,

Who said the FAA rules aren't absurd?

A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether you or I
like it or not.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

karl gruber wrote:
Who said the FAA rules aren't absurd?

A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether you or I
like it or not.

Sorry but I don't believe it.

When I see something official from the FAA that says that it is a
violation to carry a passenger at that person's request when all
expenses are paid by the pilot, then I will believe it.

All I've seen to this point are anecdotes and peoples opinions - some
of which are based on FAA rulings but the rulings don't deal with this
specific question.

The closest I've come to something concrete is an AOPA article on the
specific legalities of this situation and it said that it is a
violation when the expenses are shared.

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether you or I
like it or not.

And if the passenger happens to be your wife who suggests that you fly off
to some nice little airport with a restaurant nearby for dinner? And she
picks up the tab? Or what about if instead of being married, you've just
been living together for the last 20+ years?

The 'rules' are bull****... Ignore them...

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:49:44 GMT, "Grumman-581"
wrote:

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether you or I
like it or not.

And if the passenger happens to be your wife who suggests that you fly off
to some nice little airport with a restaurant nearby for dinner? And she
picks up the tab? Or what about if instead of being married, you've just
been living together for the last 20+ years?

What if it's your girlfriend and after dinner you're "rewarded" with
an intimate encounter? Would the FAA consider that compensation? Could
your girlfriend then be charged with prostitution?

RK Henry

"RK Henry" wrote in message
...

What if it's your girlfriend and after dinner you're "rewarded" with
an intimate encounter? Would the FAA consider that compensation? Could
your girlfriend then be charged with prostitution?

More importantly, Does This Ever Happen?!

I've asked this type of question and heard lots of answers before, but what
still remains unanswered is, "Do they really even CARE about these trivial
little things?" Or, do those rules exist in case somebody -is- trying to
run an illegitimate black market air transport service?

Whoever got busted for taking their girlfriend for a dinner ride, a daughter
to college or friends to a football game? Personally, I refuse to NOT fly
because I -might- cross a boundary that the FAA -might- actually bother
enforcing.

I've got one life to spend flying and sharing the gift and hobby of flight.
I'm not going to sacrifice that because of what some bureaucrat MIGHT do.
Otherwise, if they pull my ticket, someday I will have at least flown. (It
is better to have flown and lost...) In exchange, for the safety and
respect of myself and my passengers, I do commit myself to medical currency,
aircraft proficiency and educated decision-making with regard to determining
whether to make a flight.


-c

"Do they really even CARE about these trivial
little things?" Or, do those rules exist in case somebody -is- trying to
run an illegitimate black market air transport service?

They act like they care, if you ask them. I do support their stance
against an illigetimate black market air transport service. However,
taking your friend home from college (everyone knows you love to fly)
isn't such an animal, though the FAA has made noises as if it were. By
extension, taking your son TO college is equally a black market air
tranport service (especially if you take his friend), and it gets
sillier after that.

I would say that the problem arises from "impersonating an air transport
service", and this is easily solved if the rules state something along
the lines of "A private pilot may carry passengers. A pilot who is
excercising the privilages of a private pilot may not represent himself
or the operation as a commercial pilot, implicitly or explicitly.
Explicitly representing the operation as a private pilot is sufficient
to meet this rule. A private pilot may share expenses with passengers.
Shared expenses need not be pro-rata, but in no case may a pilot
receive more reimbursement or compensation than his actual expenses.
Logging of flight time shall not be considered compensation, neither
shall goodwill.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose, your regulation idea makes far too much sense for such a bureaucracy.


"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
"Do they really even CARE about these trivial little things?" Or, do
those rules exist in case somebody -is- trying to run an illegitimate
black market air transport service?

They act like they care, if you ask them. I do support their stance
against an illigetimate black market air transport service. However,
taking your friend home from college (everyone knows you love to fly)
isn't such an animal, though the FAA has made noises as if it were. By
extension, taking your son TO college is equally a black market air
tranport service (especially if you take his friend), and it gets sillier
after that.

I would say that the problem arises from "impersonating an air transport
service", and this is easily solved if the rules state something along the
lines of "A private pilot may carry passengers. A pilot who is
excercising the privilages of a private pilot may not represent himself or
the operation as a commercial pilot, implicitly or explicitly. Explicitly
representing the operation as a private pilot is sufficient to meet this
rule. A private pilot may share expenses with passengers. Shared expenses
need not be pro-rata, but in no case may a pilot receive more
reimbursement or compensation than his actual expenses. Logging of flight
time shall not be considered compensation, neither shall goodwill.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Recently, RK Henry posted:

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:49:44 GMT, "Grumman-581"
wrote:

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether
you or I like it or not.

And if the passenger happens to be your wife who suggests that you
fly off to some nice little airport with a restaurant nearby for
dinner? And she picks up the tab? Or what about if instead of
being married, you've just been living together for the last 20+
years?

What if it's your girlfriend and after dinner you're "rewarded" with
an intimate encounter? Would the FAA consider that compensation? Could
your girlfriend then be charged with prostitution?

How could that possibly be, when she's the "John" (payer) in this
instance? OTOH, _you_ might be charged with prostitution after being
busted for accepting compensation for a "charter" flight on your PPL. ;-)

Neil

"RK Henry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:49:44 GMT, "Grumman-581"
wrote:

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
A passenger cannot initiate a flight, that's the ruling, whether you or
I
like it or not.

And if the passenger happens to be your wife who suggests that you fly off
to some nice little airport with a restaurant nearby for dinner? And she
picks up the tab? Or what about if instead of being married, you've just
been living together for the last 20+ years?

What if it's your girlfriend and after dinner you're "rewarded" with
an intimate encounter? Would the FAA consider that compensation? Could
your girlfriend then be charged with prostitution?

RK Henry

Don't know about the prostitution rap, but I don't think anyone would accuse
her of "holding out."

Evil Grin

Jay B