A disturbing statistic

Jim Macklin wrote:


Lidle had a fast airplane and a CFI.



Not that fast, he had the SR20.

The point is that turn radius is directly related to speed.
It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower speed than
Lidle was flying his SR20 and thus make the turn. Putting
aside the fact that the NTSB investigation is barely begun,
certain facts are known. Airplanes have flown the East
River for many years. Basic flight skills should have
allowed the flight to be completed safely. It was pilot
error, the question is why did the pilots make the error?



"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
|
| Lidle had a fast airplane and a CFI.
|
|
|
| Not that fast, he had the SR20.

Jim Macklin wrote:
The point is that turn radius is directly related to speed.
It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower speed than
Lidle was flying his SR20



The reports say his ground speed was 112 mph. That's Cessna 150 territory.

It is still knots faster than he should have been to make
the turn. The true airspeed is what controls the radius,
along with the bank angle. He had a quartering headwind and
the turn was such that it was a nearly direct tailwind.
Being aware of the required turn and the speed and wind
[which should have been on display in the glass panel] both
pilots screwed up IMHO.



"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| The point is that turn radius is directly related to
speed.
| It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower speed
than
| Lidle was flying his SR20
|
|
|
| The reports say his ground speed was 112 mph. That's
Cessna 150 territory.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
It is still knots faster than he should have been to make
the turn.

Probably. But even at that airspeed (112 mph), if they'd turned with a
60-degree bank, they'd have had room to spare even if the crosswind
component had been as high as 30 knots (the turn diameter would have been
975', and the turn would have taken 10 seconds, adding 500' of drift; the
river is 2000' wide).

--Gary

The true airspeed is what controls the radius,
along with the bank angle. He had a quartering headwind and
the turn was such that it was a nearly direct tailwind.
Being aware of the required turn and the speed and wind
[which should have been on display in the glass panel] both
pilots screwed up IMHO.


"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| The point is that turn radius is directly related to
speed.
| It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower speed
than
| Lidle was flying his SR20
|
|
|
| The reports say his ground speed was 112 mph. That's
Cessna 150 territory.

Yes, also, reported that they were in the middle of the
river, not near the upwind shore.



"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| It is still knots faster than he should have been to
make
| the turn.
|
| Probably. But even at that airspeed (112 mph), if they'd
turned with a
| 60-degree bank, they'd have had room to spare even if the
crosswind
| component had been as high as 30 knots (the turn diameter
would have been
| 975', and the turn would have taken 10 seconds, adding
500' of drift; the
| river is 2000' wide).
|
| --Gary
|
| The true airspeed is what controls the radius,
| along with the bank angle. He had a quartering headwind
and
| the turn was such that it was a nearly direct tailwind.
| Being aware of the required turn and the speed and wind
| [which should have been on display in the glass panel]
both
| pilots screwed up IMHO.
|
|
| "Newps" wrote in message
| . ..
| |
| |
| | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | The point is that turn radius is directly related to
| speed.
| | It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower
speed
| than
| | Lidle was flying his SR20
| |
| |
| |
| | The reports say his ground speed was 112 mph. That's
| Cessna 150 territory.
|
|
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Yes, also, reported that they were in the middle of the
river, not near the upwind shore.

Was their path recorded with enough precision to make that determination?

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| It is still knots faster than he should have been to
make
| the turn.
|
| Probably. But even at that airspeed (112 mph), if they'd
turned with a
| 60-degree bank, they'd have had room to spare even if the
crosswind
| component had been as high as 30 knots (the turn diameter
would have been
| 975', and the turn would have taken 10 seconds, adding
500' of drift; the
| river is 2000' wide).
|
| --Gary
|
| The true airspeed is what controls the radius,
| along with the bank angle. He had a quartering headwind
and
| the turn was such that it was a nearly direct tailwind.
| Being aware of the required turn and the speed and wind
| [which should have been on display in the glass panel]
both
| pilots screwed up IMHO.
|
|
| "Newps" wrote in message
| . ..
| |
| |
| | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | The point is that turn radius is directly related to
| speed.
| | It is possible to fly a 300 King Air at a slower
speed
| than
| | Lidle was flying his SR20
| |
| |
| |
| | The reports say his ground speed was 112 mph. That's
| Cessna 150 territory.
|
|
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
It is still knots faster than he should have been to make
the turn.

No, it's not. The turn could be made at that speed at pretty much any
flyable crosswind.