When trailers go bad OR How not to tow your Wright Brothers machine

"wright1902glider" wrote

I'm currently working on various methods of accomplishing the new goal
without spending too much cash. I think most of the steel framing and
sheet metal can be used again. But I'll have to work out a new decking
system, etc.

What is the total weight of the loaded trailer, and what is the weight of the
tongue (at the ball) with the load on the trailer? You could have a balance
problem.
--
Jim in NC

What is the total weight of the loaded trailer, and what is the weight
of the
tongue (at the ball) with the load on the trailer? You could have a balance
problem.
--
Jim in NC

No dice Jim. The axle is only 4' forward of the back end. Loaded tongue
weight is at the upper limits, usually 200+, but I've tried several
different balance combinations within the 10-20% of gross range without
any improvement. I don't think an anti-sway hitch would do much good
either, since the trailer has a tendancy to just roll over, rather than
sway wildly.

Good news though. A few months ago, I ferried the boat I inhierited
(sp?) from my Dad. 1500 miles from Louisiana to CO. with no problems.
The boat is 17' long, about 1,000 lbs. gross, and has a side profile
about 3' high. I ran on the same 12x4.8" tires that I pulled off of the
glider trailer, and didn't have any problems with 15-20 MPH crosswinds.
It did tuck in rather nicely behind the Dak, with the top deck at the
same height as the top of the tailgate, so that may help as well.


FYI: I've looked very hard at several sailplane trailers. But all that
I've seen so far will not accomodate the 60" chord wings from the
Wright machine. If anyone knows of a trailer that might, I'm open to
suggestions. Otherwise, I'll keep saving my pennies until I can afford
a 8x44' gooseneck & dually. Then, it would just be a matter of pulling
the front feathers off and stuffing the whole assembled glider into its
rolling hangar.

Harry

There are several good trailer threads on rec.aviation.soaring. It's
been debated endlessly ;-)

There are also manufactured closed trailers for wide chord sailplane
wings. You might check with Blanik America. They have a closed
trailer for the Blanik that has a 66" interior height.
http://www.nwi.net/~blanikam/ba/prod05.htm

Best regards,
Craig

"wright1902glider" wrote

No dice Jim. The axle is only 4' forward of the back end. Loaded tongue
weight is at the upper limits, usually 200+, but I've tried several
different balance combinations within the 10-20% of gross range without
any improvement. I don't think an anti-sway hitch would do much good
either, since the trailer has a tendancy to just roll over, rather than
sway wildly.

So what is the total weight? 200 pounds does not sound like all that much on
the tongue.

Ok, I'm thinking out of the box, here.

Aerodynamics. How about making it more stable to the side wind. First idea, a
skirt around the bottom, lower to the road, so the wind keeps it sucked down to
the road. Plus, if wind can not get under it from the side, then it is also
less likely to be contributing to blowing it over.

Along those same lines, it occurs to me that this light of a trailer must bounce
a good bit. Does it have leaf springs? If so, how about some light shock
absorbers to keep it from bouncing. Every time it gets up in the air, it gives
wind an extra chance at the bottom of it. If the upwind side is bouncing up,
while the downwind side is headed down, that gives it extra exposed bottom
surface area and increased wind pressure on the bottom, plus making the center
of gravity closer to being unstable.

If the only spring is the air in the tires, a different inflation may make it
bounce less. If possible, mount the axles to a swing arm, and use some air
adjustable shocks and use the air pressure as the spring.

Now, really out of the box. Create an adjustable ballast system. Some type of
water containers, one on each side, and as low as possible. Enough water to
fill one container, plus a small amount for plumbing and an inch or so in the
bottom of the empty one. Plumb an electric reversible pump, or two with check
valves. When the wind is not a factor, keep the tanks balanced. When it starts
blowing like snot, fill up the upwind tank. You could run a few wires to the
cab and control it all.

This idea would work, without a doubt. The only question is if you want to go
to the trouble and expense to make it happen.
--
Jim in NC

I have two Hovey Delta Bird biplane ultralights and a non-enclosed trailer
that I picked up at the same time as I bought the first one.

The aircraft rolled up ramps sideways onto the trailer and clamped into
place and then the tail assembly disconnects at the back of the main wings.
The tail assembly then clamps into place reversed to the direction of travel
with the tail end up near the tow ball. The complete aircraft is exposed to
the elements. The ramps are at different elevations such that the rearmost
wheel (starboard landing gear) is about a foot higher than the front wheel
(port landing gear). This means the wings are at an angle that tends to push
the complete aircraft and trailer down while travelling. A decent sloping
roof on your trailer may add considerable downforce to help you handle the
crosswinds.

The single axle has three leaf springs, two as normal and the third upside
down across the axle from side to side. The weight is shared between the
springs. This is similar to the centre spring front end used on an old
Corolla KE10 from the late sixty's. The cross spring is quite effective in
helping to control the trailer. It is bolted to the frame at the centre and
the flat ends ride on a section of channel welded to the axle so there is a
flat surface to wear. The axle is held in place by the side springs which
are mounted with coupling joints like most leaf spring cars. The side
springs have three leaves and the centre spring has four leaves. I suspect
that about half the trailer weight is supported by the centre spring.

This trailer handles quite well and the second aircraft I towed 300 km
through a back road mountain range to get it home in the middle of a storm.
Although I restricted speed to 70 kmh for most of the trip due to potholes,
and 80 kmh for smoother road stretches, I did get up to 110 kmh for a test
stretch in calmer winds.

I will send a couple of pictures to your email address, and also to anyone
else that would like them, just drop a note here....

Hope this helps,
Peter

The over all width before you need special permits is 8 feet. Your thread
width may be all that you need to increase for stability. 5 foot isn't very
wide.


--
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A 45 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot


"wright1902glider" wrote in message
oups.com...
What is the total weight of the loaded trailer, and what is the weight
of the
tongue (at the ball) with the load on the trailer? You could have a
balance
problem.
--
Jim in NC

No dice Jim. The axle is only 4' forward of the back end. Loaded tongue
weight is at the upper limits, usually 200+, but I've tried several
different balance combinations within the 10-20% of gross range without
any improvement. I don't think an anti-sway hitch would do much good
either, since the trailer has a tendancy to just roll over, rather than
sway wildly.

Good news though. A few months ago, I ferried the boat I inhierited
(sp?) from my Dad. 1500 miles from Louisiana to CO. with no problems.
The boat is 17' long, about 1,000 lbs. gross, and has a side profile
about 3' high. I ran on the same 12x4.8" tires that I pulled off of the
glider trailer, and didn't have any problems with 15-20 MPH crosswinds.
It did tuck in rather nicely behind the Dak, with the top deck at the
same height as the top of the tailgate, so that may help as well.


FYI: I've looked very hard at several sailplane trailers. But all that
I've seen so far will not accomodate the 60" chord wings from the
Wright machine. If anyone knows of a trailer that might, I'm open to
suggestions. Otherwise, I'll keep saving my pennies until I can afford
a 8x44' gooseneck & dually. Then, it would just be a matter of pulling
the front feathers off and stuffing the whole assembled glider into its
rolling hangar.

Harry

"wright1902glider" wrote in message
oups.com...
What is the total weight of the loaded trailer, and what is the weight
of the
tongue (at the ball) with the load on the trailer? You could have a
balance
problem.
--
Jim in NC

No dice Jim. The axle is only 4' forward of the back end. Loaded tongue
weight is at the upper limits, usually 200+, but I've tried several
different balance combinations within the 10-20% of gross range without
any improvement. I don't think an anti-sway hitch would do much good
either, since the trailer has a tendancy to just roll over, rather than
sway wildly.

Good news though. A few months ago, I ferried the boat I inhierited
(sp?) from my Dad. 1500 miles from Louisiana to CO. with no problems.
The boat is 17' long, about 1,000 lbs. gross, and has a side profile
about 3' high. I ran on the same 12x4.8" tires that I pulled off of the
glider trailer, and didn't have any problems with 15-20 MPH crosswinds.
It did tuck in rather nicely behind the Dak, with the top deck at the
same height as the top of the tailgate, so that may help as well.


FYI: I've looked very hard at several sailplane trailers. But all that
I've seen so far will not accomodate the 60" chord wings from the
Wright machine. If anyone knows of a trailer that might, I'm open to
suggestions. Otherwise, I'll keep saving my pennies until I can afford
a 8x44' gooseneck & dually. Then, it would just be a matter of pulling
the front feathers off and stuffing the whole assembled glider into its
rolling hangar.

Harry


Yet another clueless response:
Have you checked toe-out/in on the trailer wheels?
Tim Ward

"Tim Ward" wrote

Yet another clueless response:
Have you checked toe-out/in on the trailer wheels?
Tim Ward

Most bought trailer axles have no provision for toe in/out. They are dead
straight.

A big clue came when the OP said he could get one wheel to lift off the ground,
just by pushing back and forth on the trailer, and get it rocking back and
forth. Sway from toe in/out is not a problem here.

Wider axle, and more weight on the axle, and less on the ball. That is what is
needed.
--
Jim in NC

Jim,

Skeerd yet? That thing's got over 7,000 miles on it!

I think you may have a point about the fore/aft balance. Truth is, I
havn't checked the balance with a set of scales since I first built it.
I've only weighed the tongue. That's going to be step one of the
rebuild... to get the balance right. Even so, the last balast test
involved loading 480 lbs. of sandbags in the aft end. There was a
definite improvement, but it was still unstable.

I've had another idea that the 2x4 wood framing in the deck could be
replaced by steel angle if I can find it cheap enough. I might also be
able to use a set of plastic "sprayer tanks" for the balast system.

And yet another thought. That I should ditch that Chineese frame and
just weld my own. HA! A bona fide excuse to buy a welding torch.

Harry

"wright1902glider" wrote

And yet another thought. That I should ditch that Chineese frame and
just weld my own. HA! A bona fide excuse to buy a welding torch.

There you go! Now you're talkin'.

By the time you get done gas welding a trailer, you could weld up an airplane,
I'll bet!
--
Jim in NC