How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?

Mxsmanic wrote:

Unfortunately, some B airspaces seem to be much more complex, and
looking on the chart I can't figure out where they start and end.

Generically speaking:

If you look closely, you'll see multiple rings from several airports, so
the overall airspace area might not be round, but it will be made up of
intersecting circles. In that case, you'd use several navaids, and
continually establish your position. Going around the space, I'll often
pick one or two easy to use points outside the space and fly to them,
safely taking me around the space.

Remember, you only care about the boundry you're near. G

For example, look at the terminal chart for KLAX. Some of the class B
boundaries are marked, such as SMO 252° or VNY 220° at the western
extremity. But then there's a northern border that isn't marked at
all. I see water, a building, and Griffith Park observatory nearby,
but that's it.

I don't have that chart, but I's simply give a bit of extra cushion, or
get clearance.

Yes, I could plan carefully in advance. But then, if anything changes
my route, all the planning goes out the window, and I'm back to
looking at the chart.

All addressed in training and ongoing practice. G


Maybe. I suppose if you can pick and choose your route, you can find
one with lots of landmarks to use. But can you do that when you are
working towards a license?

Not only "can you", but you must! G Training cross countries are
chosen, planned and flown by the student.


If I'm flying near, over, or under controlled airspace, I'll at least
monitor the frequency, and call if I'm near.

If you are flying through a VFR corridor that requires no ATC contact
(see the KSAN terminal chart, which has such a corridor and explicitly
says that no contact is required), do you routinely talk to ATC,
anyway?

If I'm obviously clear, no, but I usually will monitor them. I use
flight following as often as I can when flying VFR, so I'm usually on
with SOMEBODY. In this example case "somebody" would usually be "them".
If I'm flying a dedicated VFR corridor, there's really no reason to
bother ATC. Since VFR corridors are in very busy airspace, the
controllers are going to be busy enough without me. G

What do you request from them?

Whatever I need, depending on the situation at hand. I take pride and
put a lot of thought and effort into my ATC contacts, so I'm rarely
denied. In fact, I can't remember my last ATC request that was denied,
and I deal with the NY & BOS folks often.


If the space is completely restricted, why poke at the beast? You'd
simply give it a reasonable, without-a-doubt cushion while passing by.

If there is space to do that.

With proper planning, there's ALWAYS space, or you don't do it. G

Remember, ALTITUDE is a very accurate tool to clear airspace. If you're
over or under a certain airspace, the horizontal component of your
location gains a bit of wiggle room.

Thorough pre-planning, including what-ifs and alternate routes and
airports, make it all go well and usually make in-flight decisions easy.
"Kicking the tires and lighting the fires" can drastically increase
in-flight workload. Experience and training teaches a good pilot what
degree of planning is necessary for the particular flight at hand.

B A R R Y writes:

Not only "can you", but you must! G Training cross countries are
chosen, planned and flown by the student.

How far do you have to fly, and in what way, in order for it to count
as a "cross-country" flight?

Whatever I need, depending on the situation at hand. I take pride and
put a lot of thought and effort into my ATC contacts, so I'm rarely
denied. In fact, I can't remember my last ATC request that was denied,
and I deal with the NY & BOS folks often.

I've read that Class B airspaces are not happy to see GA traffic.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y writes:

Not only "can you", but you must! G Training cross countries are
chosen, planned and flown by the student.

How far do you have to fly, and in what way, in order for it to count
as a "cross-country" flight?

(2) Except as provided in Sec. 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night
flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes--
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total
distance; and


(i) 5 hours of solo cross-country time;
(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of
at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations;
and


Whatever I need, depending on the situation at hand. I take pride and
put a lot of thought and effort into my ATC contacts, so I'm rarely
denied. In fact, I can't remember my last ATC request that was denied,
and I deal with the NY & BOS folks often.

I've read that Class B airspaces are not happy to see GA traffic.


Class B ATC controllers are much like this newsgroup. If you have a clue
there usually isn't a problem.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

(2) Except as provided in Sec. 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night
flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes--
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total
distance; and

Sounds like just crossing Phoenix would qualify.

(i) 5 hours of solo cross-country time;
(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of
at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations;
and

Sounds like crossing Phoenix might _still_ qualify.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

(2) Except as provided in Sec. 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night
flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes--
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total
distance; and

Sounds like just crossing Phoenix would qualify.

(i) 5 hours of solo cross-country time;
(ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles
total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points,
and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of
at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations;
and

Sounds like crossing Phoenix might _still_ qualify.

--

Well you have proven that you can't even read a map. I'm not familiar with
the Phoenix are so I opened up AOPA Real-Time Flight Planner and picked two
airports that were pretty much at opposite sides of the Phoenix area
(Pleasant Valley P48 & Casa Grande Municipal KCGZ) and they are only 56.2
miles from each other.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

I've read that Class B airspaces are not happy to see GA traffic.

From my experience, Class B controllers are happy to service traffic that
behaves professionally, regardless of what part of the FARs they are
operating under. I have personally heard Class B controllers ball out Airline
Pilots for failing to pay proper attention to a call, and for failing to
comply with an instruction in a timely fashion (ie: after three or four
acknowledged requests).

I have also heard them treat pilots in trainer planes with respect and
gratitude.

The controller has a job to do, and he expects the planes in his airspace to
be monitoring his transmissions, and to follow his directions for procedures,
altitudes, and headings in a timely fashion. Anyone who complies is welcomed.
Even pilots who make a mistake are treated well and mildly corrected. But if
a controller has to repeat every instruction 3 or 4 times, he's going to
start getting very annoyed.