Todays Cost of getting a PPL

"john smith" wrote in message
...
After reading John's (BucFan) posting and the revelation that he spent
$12,500 to get his PPL, I have to wonder how representative this is?
It certainly is daunting, to say the least.
Is this is true, it is certainly a factor in the decline in pilot starts
and completions.
Where you live:
What are the going rates for dual instruction?

What are the rates and aircraft being used for training?

I did indeed include "everything". Some of the items I did not list in the
initial post were the study materials I used for the written exam (I bought
the Sporty's DVD set), books (Rod Macados book, the FAA Airplane Flying
Handbook, Aviation Weather etc), charts and A/FDs, supplies (lap board, red
light head lamp for night flying), the written exam fee, checkride fee, and
a timer for xc legs ( I got sick of trying to use my watch). I am sure I
forgot some things, but you get the idea.

I use MS Money to track my bills and stuff, so when I started flying I
created a "flying" category and put everything in there.

A little more info. I live in North Alabama and flew out of one of the few
remaining flying clubs on an army base, the airport designator is KHUA. The
cost of airplane rental was:

C152 - wet this started out at 60.50 (I think) an hour and was raised to
65.50 early this year or late last year, I do not remember exactly.

Piper Warrior - I think this was 79.50 an hour wet. I can not check on it
because they sold the plane.

The instructor was 22.00 an hour.

Club dues are 35 a month, I think this was 30 a month when I joined and they
were raised last year. The fee increases were directly related to fuel
costs.

I ended up with 91.7 hours total. My dual time was 69.0.

Remember also, this was spread over 2.5 years, so if you average it out I
think it was about 400 a month. I had budgeted 500 a month for flying
lessons, but there were some months where I spent 0 and some where I spent
700 or so. Hope this helps!

John
PP-ASEL

"BucFan" wrote in message
...
"john smith" wrote in message
...


Remember also, this was spread over 2.5 years, so if you average it out I
think it was about 400 a month. I had budgeted 500 a month for flying
lessons, but there were some months where I spent 0 and some where I spent
700 or so. Hope this helps!

John
PP-ASEL

One thing which helps is to accelerate your training. 90 hours over 2.5
years is 3 hours a month. It is hard to make much progress at that rate,
because you tend to forget things in that week or 10 days between lessons.

I completed my license in 5 or 6 months and about 45 hours of flight time.
I'd have earned the ticket sooner, but had difficulty scheduling a check
ride.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
news
One thing which helps is to accelerate your training. 90 hours over 2.5
years is 3 hours a month. It is hard to make much progress at that rate,
because you tend to forget things in that week or 10 days between lessons.

People make this comment all the time, and I'm sorry, but I don't
necessarily agree with it. I'm not going for my PPL, rather, I'm going for
my R.A. certificate, which is our (Australia) equivalent of the US Sport
class. Due to budget and family constraints, I cannot fly more than once a
week, and only on weekends. Some weekends the weather is bad all weekend, so
I don't get to fly. I've got 4.9 hours total now, which I know isn't much,
but I started back in September, and can say that I haven't experienced any
lessons that have required me to 're-learn' anything before progressing. My
instructor says I'm progressing very well, and she estimates I'll be solo in
about another 4-5 hours at the rate I'm going. With only 4.9 hours under my
belt, in 2 months, I've got 16 landings and 18 take offs in the bag!
Whilst I agree, some people may forget things in the gap between classes, I
haven't, and don't believe that 'most' people would. Maybe I'm just some
'natural flyer' but I seriously doubt it.
Oz/Crash Lander

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
news
One thing which helps is to accelerate your training. 90 hours over 2.5
years is 3 hours a month. It is hard to make much progress at that rate,
because you tend to forget things in that week or 10 days between
lessons.

People make this comment all the time, and I'm sorry, but I don't
necessarily agree with it. I'm not going for my PPL, rather, I'm going for
my R.A. certificate, which is our (Australia) equivalent of the US Sport
class. Due to budget and family constraints, I cannot fly more than once a
week, and only on weekends. Some weekends the weather is bad all weekend,
so I don't get to fly. I've got 4.9 hours total now, which I know isn't
much, but I started back in September, and can say that I haven't
experienced any lessons that have required me to 're-learn' anything
before progressing. My instructor says I'm progressing very well, and she
estimates I'll be solo in about another 4-5 hours at the rate I'm going.
With only 4.9 hours under my belt, in 2 months, I've got 16 landings and
18 take offs in the bag!
Whilst I agree, some people may forget things in the gap between classes,
I haven't, and don't believe that 'most' people would. Maybe I'm just some
'natural flyer' but I seriously doubt it.
Oz/Crash Lander

What you most likely forget is touch or feel. Back when you were a new
driver, did you ever go a week or maybe a month when you didn't get behind
the wheel? That was my situation in college - I didn't have a car, so I
could sometimes go for weeks or months between opportunities to drive. When
I did get back behind the wheel, it was obvious to me that my skills had
regressed and it took a couple of trips before I got "back in the groove".

The same thing applies to flying. You forget the subtle points and lose the
fine motor skills when you're away from it. If you're a new aviator, it
takes less time to lose "the touch". If you have more experience, it takes
longer before your touch diminishes, but I assure you, it does...

And maybe you are a natural flyer. Half the people in the world have above
average motor skills, after all. ;-)

Good luck with your training...

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
news
What you most likely forget is touch or feel. Back when you were a new
driver, did you ever go a week or maybe a month when you didn't get behind
the wheel? That was my situation in college - I didn't have a car, so I
could sometimes go for weeks or months between opportunities to drive.
When I did get back behind the wheel, it was obvious to me that my skills
had regressed and it took a couple of trips before I got "back in the
groove".

I can see how 'months' away from it could pose a problem, but not a week or
2, which is what '2 or 3 lessons a month' is.

Oz/Crash Lander

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
news
One thing which helps is to accelerate your training. 90 hours over 2.5
years is 3 hours a month. It is hard to make much progress at that rate,
because you tend to forget things in that week or 10 days between
lessons.

People make this comment all the time, and I'm sorry, but I don't
necessarily agree with it. I'm not going for my PPL, rather, I'm going for
my R.A. certificate, which is our (Australia) equivalent of the US Sport
class. Due to budget and family constraints, I cannot fly more than once a
week, and only on weekends. Some weekends the weather is bad all weekend,
so I don't get to fly. I've got 4.9 hours total now, which I know isn't
much, but I started back in September, and can say that I haven't
experienced any lessons that have required me to 're-learn' anything
before progressing. My instructor says I'm progressing very well, and she
estimates I'll be solo in about another 4-5 hours at the rate I'm going.
With only 4.9 hours under my belt, in 2 months, I've got 16 landings and
18 take offs in the bag!
Whilst I agree, some people may forget things in the gap between classes,
I haven't, and don't believe that 'most' people would. Maybe I'm just some
'natural flyer' but I seriously doubt it.
Oz/Crash Lander

What you most likely forget is touch or feel. Back when you were a new
driver, did you ever go a week or maybe a month when you didn't get behind
the wheel? That was my situation in college - I didn't have a car, so I
could sometimes go for weeks or months between opportunities to drive. When
I did get back behind the wheel, it was obvious to me that my skills had
regressed and it took a couple of trips before I got "back in the groove".

The same thing applies to flying. You forget the subtle points and lose the
fine motor skills when you're away from it. If you're a new aviator, it
takes less time to lose "the touch". If you have more experience, it takes
longer before your touch diminishes, but I assure you, it does...

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.
-----

- gpsman

"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.

Point taken, but not entirely agreed with. The fact remains that a pilot who
is at the circuits part of the training, regardless of how many hours he's
taken to get there, has sufficient "touch" to be able to control the
aircraft with minimal to no input from an instructor. True, the instructor
must be with the student at all times, but the idea is for the student to
actually 'fly' the aircraft, with the instructor leaving the controls alone
unless necessary to avoid an incident. The fact I'm not solo yet doesn't
mean I can't fly. I can fly, well enough for circuits at least, just perhaps
not well enough to get myself out of trouble should anything untoward
happen, hence the requirement for the instructor to be with me. Surely if a
student can get an aircraft off the ground, around a full circuit, and back
on the ground again in one piece, without the instructor touching the
controls, he has enough "touch" to lose!
Oz/Crash Lander

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.

Point taken, but not entirely agreed with. The fact remains that a pilot
who is at the circuits part of the training, regardless of how many hours
he's taken to get there, has sufficient "touch" to be able to control the
aircraft with minimal to no input from an instructor. True, the instructor
must be with the student at all times, but the idea is for the student to
actually 'fly' the aircraft, with the instructor leaving the controls
alone unless necessary to avoid an incident. The fact I'm not solo yet
doesn't mean I can't fly. I can fly, well enough for circuits at least,
just perhaps not well enough to get myself out of trouble should anything
untoward happen, hence the requirement for the instructor to be with me.
Surely if a student can get an aircraft off the ground, around a full
circuit, and back on the ground again in one piece, without the instructor
touching the controls, he has enough "touch" to lose!
Oz/Crash Lander

You are absolutely right about this CL. A good instructor will only fly the
airplane long enough to demonstrate something to the student then give the
airplane right back to the student. For all intent and purposes, the student
should be the one actually on the controls from startup to shutdown.
By the time you get into the pattern you should have a good foundation of
the basics and all the pattern should be is an extension of those basics
flown to tighter and closer tolerances.
A good instructor knows exactly how far to let the student fly into an
error. The exceptional instructor starts talking the student into correcting
any error on their own, without physical intervention by the instructor.
There are of course times when an instructor has to correct physically, but
this should be viewed as the exception; not the rule!
Dudley Henriques

Crash Lander wrote: brevity snip
"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.

Point taken, but not entirely agreed with. The fact remains that a pilot who
is at the circuits part of the training, regardless of how many hours he's
taken to get there, has sufficient "touch" to be able to control the
aircraft with minimal to no input from an instructor.

Sure, no argument there. But the fact remains that the masters of
every fine skill feel the edge come off their technique after 24-48
hours. They notice that, the novice doesn't, since he hasn't yet
attained that edge.

That's why Yo-Yo Ma and his ilk still practice between gigs and can
coax better performance from inferior instruments.

You may not need his level of skill to fly, but you'd probably be best
off working toward it.

To me, flying is all about practicing precision and attention to
detail. If you can meet a master aerial agricultural sprayer ask him
to show you a GPS record of his spray patterns.
-----

- gpsman

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:36:21 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

Half the people in the world have above
average motor skills, after all. ;-)

Well, actually, not necessarily. "Above median" I'll give you.

Rick