Airbus 380

as i bury myself in the flak shelter.........
We are often reminded of the hardships endured by our forefathers in the gliding community to get us to where we now are. Wooden ships, breezy clubrooms if any, dodgy tugs, doped fabric.
C'mon you old codgers, with all due respect, this sport is DYING. What has been done is WHY it is dying. This train of thought is killing us!
To insist that newcomers start in an old tin or wooden warhorse may well kill any interest and passion for flying in the first place!
There will always be a place for your beloved antiques, but please, dont force them on the youth or learners of today because you had to endure that yourself.
Get your students into that fast, slippery Carbon/kevlar/unobtainuim ship as soon as possible, and keep the passion alive or we will all be dreaming about gliding instead of doing it.

Do you notice the interest in F1 car racing? Do you think those punters standing around at car races dream of driving the race car, or the Model T Ford at uncle Bobs farm?
Do you look bored at the Hornets in an airshow or look awestruck at the balloons?

Its all about passion, DONT KILL IT!

The real expense in gliding comes from suits in insurance companies, expensive launches, fees for landing, fees for governments to restrict us, blah blah blah, not the actual cost of the machine!
Gliders have never been more affordable or accessable than they are right now, although the top ships are damned expensive, the top anything is damned expensive.

What we have done has led us to where we are. Its not a good place. It may see your days out but not my kids days, nor theirs and I am ripping the sport off if I dont put back in what I have got out of it. Is that your own position, you should ask?

We need change and the attitude that newbies should lump around the field in POS is a perfect place to start. Try this-

"gone solo young feller? Great!"
" Lets get the (insert hottest club ship) out next Sunday and I will DI it and set you up, you will be fine, its a great fast, sleek glider"

Note NOT great first glider, or trainer/learner/stable/forgiving/safe glider, -push the damn thing for heavans sake! KEEP THE PASSION

Get to the field and get them in it. Dont suffer them with the gadgets, its still about stick and rudder, get them to it ASAP and watch them roll up with their mates next month.

Once we have the newbie hooked, he/she WILL continue in a ship of their own, probably lower down the scale and more within the budget we are all constrained with.
BUT they will be one of us now, instead of looking elsewhere for a sport which will interest them.

SO what occurs?
Newbie is hooked, buys second hand glider.
Old hand sells secondhand glider to newbie, buys new glider for himself.
Sales for glider manufactureres go up, technology and skill go up, processes get simpler and cheaper by volume, gliders get cheaper!
What a shock!
Dont believe me?

How much is a new Ferrari, Maserati, Viper or Corvette? The things are everywhere, often driven by young folks wealthier than I. Good on them, why dont they fly?
Ask yourself, should they drive an old volkswagon just because they are new at driving?
Would they be passionate about driving in the old volkswagon? Dont bother with the safety bull**** argument, the two are different and shouldnt be used as an excuse.

CHANGE IT ALL NOW, start in your own head.
Or we all go down, make no mistake.

Bagmaker,
looking forward to the gin being spluttered through large droopy moustaches at him next weekend at the club.

bagmaker wrote:
"gone solo young feller? Great!"
" Lets get the (insert hottest club ship) out next Sunday and I will DI
it and set you up, you will be fine, its a great fast, sleek glider"
Note NOT great first glider, or trainer/learner/stable/forgiving/safe
glider, -push the damn thing for heavans sake!

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

Damn right Robert!

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

A little story, but true. It actually happened to me.

I worked in Germany for several years and while over there learned to
fly gliders and got my license. When I returned to the US, I went to
the nearest glider port and was told by the instructor that he didn't
have time to help me obtain a US license. I didn't want a US license
based on the German license because of the need to obtain an physical
from a German flight surgeon. That I should go to a commercial school
and then come back and fly their 2-33. I took a ride in the 2-33 and
decided that although the newest ships that I was checked out on in
Germany was a Junior and Puchacz (trained in Bocian), that I would
find something else to do. Between the 2-33 and the instructors
attitude, I'll wait until I move someplace where the people are
friendlier. The instructors attitude was the main reason, but the 2-33
didn't help.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:46:20 +0200, Bruce Greef
wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

Karl Semper wrote:
A little story, but true. It actually happened to me.

I worked in Germany for several years and while over there learned to
fly gliders and got my license. When I returned to the US, I went to
the nearest glider port and was told by the instructor that he didn't
have time to help me obtain a US license. I didn't want a US license
based on the German license because of the need to obtain an physical
from a German flight surgeon. That I should go to a commercial school
and then come back and fly their 2-33. I took a ride in the 2-33 and
decided that although the newest ships that I was checked out on in
Germany was a Junior and Puchacz (trained in Bocian), that I would
find something else to do. Between the 2-33 and the instructors
attitude, I'll wait until I move someplace where the people are
friendlier. The instructors attitude was the main reason, but the 2-33
didn't help.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:46:20 +0200, Bruce Greef
wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

Karl,

You and I are not alone, there is more stories like yours. It almost
feels like saying "a typical situation".

I also agree with Robert about the glass ships....but I also will agree
with Gary about the 2-33...there is room for every glider, however the
main problem is our attitude. Be nice, be fun, be friendly, don't trash
people because of their looks, treat them as equal and people will come
from every imaginable walk of life. Just because I speak with an accent
it doesn't make me "sub-human" or worse pilot than you are. I can tell
you a story about a guy from Argentina who was asking for a flight
instructions in a club I used to be belong to in Pacific NW....but I
will not. It is shameful that we have some individuals like that
running and operating a club....and I know also that this is not unique
incident.

Jacek
Washington State

wrote:
I also agree with Robert about the glass ships....but I also will agree
with Gary about the 2-33...there is room for every glider, however the
main problem is our attitude. Be nice, be fun, be friendly, don't trash
people because of their looks, treat them as equal and people will come
from every imaginable walk of life. Just because I speak with an accent
it doesn't make me "sub-human" or worse pilot than you are. I can tell
you a story about a guy from Argentina who was asking for a flight
instructions in a club I used to be belong to in Pacific NW....but I
will not. It is shameful that we have some individuals like that
running and operating a club....and I know also that this is not unique
incident.

Jacek
Washington State

Jacek, you know what else is a shame is there is a guy who runs Bermuda
soaring which I guess is one of the biggest operators in his part of
the country, and he posts racist and derogitory remarks on RAS.It is as
if he doesnt care who he ****es off.Or maybe he thinks none of his
customers post on RAS, who knows?

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

As soon as I find someone to sponsor my flying. Whether we like it or
not, K-21 is three or four times more expensive than K-13. Yep, I went
solo in a K-13. Yep, I could have choosen a club that used K-21 for
training. Going solo would have cost me approximately twice as much.

Your club instructors should regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be
able to pass on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

I have no doubts about their skills. Most of them actually own glass
gliders.

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

I suppose so.

Bartek (who will gladly fly anything with wood, metal or glass wings)

wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great
speed control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking
pace. What a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW
20 with 40 degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing
like my Std Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider
would have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org