Airbus 380

Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

In fact, I'd say that it's more likely that a less-skilled pilot would get
in trouble flying a too-fast approach in a slick glass ship.

Bill Daniels


"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
newsr95h.67$8u1.2@trndny04...
wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great speed
control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking pace. What
a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW 20 with 40
degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing like my Std
Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider would
have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

Wow, those numbers strike me as fast. I did my primary training in
2-32s and typically flew the pattern around 70mph and had sufficient
float on landing.

I can't imagine why anyone would regularly do a 90mph pattern.

I did do 100mph on final once, but that was part of a checkout before I
could do commercial rides in the 2-32. Those velocity limiting dive
brakes are pretty impressive. :-)

Jeremy

"Jeremy Zawodny" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch
of jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over
the fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The
2-32 POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum
approach speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32
enough to fly the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to
let the approach speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands
that fast.

Wow, those numbers strike me as fast. I did my primary training in 2-32s
and typically flew the pattern around 70mph and had sufficient float on
landing.

I can't imagine why anyone would regularly do a 90mph pattern.

I did do 100mph on final once, but that was part of a checkout before I
could do commercial rides in the 2-32. Those velocity limiting dive
brakes are pretty impressive. :-)

Jeremy

The concern isn't about float, it's about the 2-32's behavior in a gust
induced stall.

Bill Daniels

90mph patterns in a 2-32 aren't uncommon. Especially at sites that
have had one spin in.

Frank Whiteley

Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

Wow, those numbers strike me as fast. I did my primary training in
2-32s and typically flew the pattern around 70mph and had sufficient
float on landing.

I can't imagine why anyone would regularly do a 90mph pattern.

I did do 100mph on final once, but that was part of a checkout before I
could do commercial rides in the 2-32. Those velocity limiting dive
brakes are pretty impressive. :-)

Jeremy

Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

Bill, why would anyone be laughing?Landing a jet and landing a
sailplane (Especially on a unprepared surface) are two totaly different
things.Sounds like one of those "There I was" stories.


The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

Here you are getting even further from E.G's post.With less than 40 of
these things still flying, the 2-32 is not that common at all.There was
a thead earlier on RAS about a guy who advocated pattern speeds near
VNE in a 2-33 without taking into account the hazards such a high speed
creates.I would say your post follows the same logic.If you touch down
at 80KTS you are probably creating more hazards than you are
avoiding.Were you posted "No glass glider I know of lands that fast"
should read no glass glider PILOT I know of lands that fast.Think about
what you are post here Bob.If you fly a pattern at 40 MPH or so above
stall speed to avoid a "Gust induced stall" this means you are
expecting a gust in exess of 40MPH.I have never flown on a day when the
wind was gusting that high above the steady state wind..What is it
like? Sounds like another "there I was" story.


In fact, I'd say that it's more likely that a less-skilled pilot would get
in trouble flying a too-fast approach in a slick glass ship.

Anyone would get in trouble flying too fast an aproach.What the ship is
made of has no bearing on this.

Bill Daniels

K Urban

P.S. How did you keep your wheel brake from catching on fire?



"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
newsr95h.67$8u1.2@trndny04...
wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great speed
control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking pace. What
a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW 20 with 40
degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing like my Std
Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider would
have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

bagmaker wrote:
..../...

To insist that newcomers start in an old tin or wooden warhorse may
well kill any interest and passion for flying in the first place!

Well said. I'm a case in point.

My background is over 30 years flying competitive Free Flight model gliders.

Back in the late 80s or early 90s I was at a couple of trial flight
evenings with ASK-13s as the aircraft. I enjoyed the evenings, but never
had the urge to learn to fly.

In 1999 during an aviation related holiday I took a trial flight in an
ASK-21 and was instantly hooked. I spent the winter researching local
clubs and joined up in spring 2000. My club's fleet is all glass and
I've never looked back, learning in ASK-21, G103 and Puchacz, then
working up the club fleet through Juniors to Pegase and Discus.

Currently I own a lightly Streifenedered Standard Libelle and love it to
bits.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |