Thrown out of an FBO...

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

.... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?


Oh, good God... now I've heard it all. Jews have a long history of being
discriminated against in every part of the world. Some Jews are even
discriminated against in Israel. To your knowledge, what charter pilot has had
to deal with that sort of discrimination? Is there a large portion of the
world's population dedicating themselves to the destruction of charter pilots?

What an incredibly .... words fail me.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Oh, good God... now I've heard it all. Jews have...

What an incredibly .... words fail me.

Getting offended now, are we?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Oh, good God... now I've heard it all. Jews have a long history of being
discriminated against in every part of the world. Some Jews are even
discriminated against in Israel. To your knowledge, what charter pilot has had
to deal with that sort of discrimination? Is there a large portion of the
world's population dedicating themselves to the destruction of charter pilots?

What an incredibly .... words fail me.

I think you 'forgot' to read the little word 'IF' above.

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Jose

If someone says "all pilots are spolied rich men", would you throw him
out of your house/airport/business? I hope not, because if you do, then
you will only be reinforcing that person's opinion of pilots. Instead,
I hope you will talk to that person calmly and patiently and educate
him on the subject.

If, on the other hand, Jay had walked up to the FBO pounding his fist
on the table, shouting to everyone at the lobby that all corporate
pilots are scums/*******s/assholes etc.. I could understand if he were
being thrown out, just like someone would get thrown out of a
restaurant/theater/airplane due to improper conduct. But that was
clearly not the case here.

The comment you mentioned above about Jews is not the same as the
examples we are talking about., The sole purpose of that comment is
derogatory and is meant to offend someone. I would rate that comment
along the same line as Jay pounding his fist and shouting at the FBO,
both of which call for a 'throwing out'.

If someone says "all pilots are spolied rich men", would you throw him
out of your house/airport/business?

It doesn't matter what I would do. That I would not do so does not make
such a comment polite.

The comment you mentioned above about Jews is not the same as the
examples we are talking about., The sole purpose of that comment is
derogatory and is meant to offend someone. I would rate that comment
along the same line as Jay pounding his fist and shouting at the FBO,
both of which call for a 'throwing out'.

Uh.... no.

The comment I mentioned about Jews
-- "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"
is quite similar to Jay's comment:
-- "those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

Suppose the exchange had been a little different. The FBO owner is
Jewish, her husband is a Rabbi, and Jay (unknowingly) says:
"Yeah, the only time the tanks don't get filled
at our place is when a Rabbi uses our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

I really don't see the difference.

Jay walked in with a superior attitude which came to light in this exchange.

He did a nice thing - filling the tank. But then, tipping a waitress is
also a nice thing, isn't it? How about tipping your doctor after an
exam? That's just not done, and a doctor would probably refuse (and may
even be insulted). Tipping is often seen as something one does to
servants; it helps reinforce class distinctions.

-- He replied that we "Didn't have to do that..."
He turned down the tip, in a sense.

-- "Yeah, the only time the tanks don't get filled
at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

That is effectively saying that Jay is better than those SOBs because he
filled the tank. Since the FBO person was also a charter pilot, Jay
must be better than him.

Not that he meant to insult him, but that's how the person took it, and
that is fair enough. What Jay said was insulting, even if (nudge nudge
wink wink)...

Jay, instead of apologizing, =justifies= his insult, saying that they
aren't paid enough. That's an example of the "superior attitude" I
refer to. Accident chain in progress - he's talking to the guy who pays
the charter pilots.

Then to top it off, they add insult to insult, when after being
(justifiably) thrown out, Mary comments that "Avoiding this place
shouldn't be too hard."

It may come to pass that somebody will get Jay's goat at the hotel, and
Jay will throw that SOB out on his derrier, fully believing he's in the
right. I wonder what =that= story will look like.

Jay says:
It's a shame -- with all the problems facing GA,
small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have

I say that it's a shame that Jay insults and demeans fellow pilots who
are struggling to make a living at flying, and who are probably quite
generous in other ways. I'd go as far as to say that just =being= a
charter pilot is an act of generosity in itself.

Jay says:
My mistake was in believing that I was sharing an inside joke with an
FBO owner and fellow courtesy car provider. At least yesterday, this
guy was a charter pilot first, and an FBO owner as an afterthought --
and he took the joke personally.

At this point the best thing that might happen is that he sits down
with his pilots, and drills into them that they should ALWAYS fill the
courtesy car whenever they use it.

His mistake was more arrogance. (at this point I'm talking more to Jay
than to Andrew) The best thing that might happen is that Jay realize
that people are =people= first, and "couresy car providers" last. There
is nothing wrong with being a charter pilot "first" and a business owner
second. I wouldn't call it an afterthought at all. That's another
insult you are hurling out at a fellow pilot, who for all you know may
actually pay his charter pilots very well and only run the FBO so that
he can do so.

Did you buy any avgas?
Not this time. However, airports are publically owned for a reason --
their primary impact is that they bring lots of dollars into the local
economy. Thus, the "business" this guy drove off was the $30 we spent
at the local restaurant, the $15 we spent at the local gas station
(filling HIS tank) plus any future business we could provide to his
FBO.

So, taking the other side for a moment, why should a charter pilot care
about filling the tank? That courtsey car is attracting all this
business to the city, so the FBO should be thrilled about that. You too
shouldn't care whether pilots fill up your grape. But you do - enough
to spread ill will about charter pilots (whom you profess to love) and
think yourself superior.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

It may come to pass that somebody will get Jay's goat at the hotel, and
Jay will throw that SOB out on his derrier, fully believing he's in the
right. I wonder what =that= story will look like.

That's and interesting statement. Having been involved in and listened
to some of the converations over a beverage at Oshkosh in which Jay was
involved, it would have to be a pretty serious offense to ruffle Jay's
feathers.

I bet I could do it without even getting impolite.

mike

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jose wrote:

It may come to pass that somebody will get Jay's goat at the hotel, and
Jay will throw that SOB out on his derrier, fully believing he's in the
right. I wonder what =that= story will look like.

That's and interesting statement. Having been involved in and listened
to some of the converations over a beverage at Oshkosh in which Jay was
involved, it would have to be a pretty serious offense to ruffle Jay's
feathers.

I bet I could do it without even getting impolite.

I believe you are correct.

Actually, I've escorted a few unruly guests off the property -- and my
night manager has done more than his share. That goes along with
owning a hotel in a college town -- for some reason, those young men
(and women) are all perfect gentlepeople when they check in, but
occasionally turn ugly after a few too many shots at the downtown bars.
When they start singing on the balcony, it's time to go.

;-)

Remember, our prime directive is comfort for our guests. If someone
-- paying guest, or not -- is causing a disturbance that interferes
with the prime directive, they are escorted off the property, no
refunds -- and they sign a statement at check-in acknowledging this
policy. It doesn't happen often, but it *does* happen.

If you've EVER had a hotel room next to a party, and called the front
desk to complain, and been told "there's nothing we can do" -- you now
know they were lying to you.

But then, you already knew that, didn't you -- and never went back.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I could do it without getting unruly, either.

mike

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I bet I could do it without even getting impolite.

I believe you are correct.

Actually, I've escorted a few unruly guests off the property --