Govt Plates

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Roy Smith wrote:

Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say anything
bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is excellent, and
they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You can download the
data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for fire-sale prices.


And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.


Just you wait until health care is free!!!


So, what does health care have to do with government approach charts?
And, why would I want to "just wait?"

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Roy Smith wrote:

Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say
anything bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is
excellent, and they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You
can download the data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for
fire-sale prices.


And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.


Just you wait until health care is free!!!
So, what does health care have to do with government approach charts? And,
why would I want to "just wait?"

If you're lame-brained (as you've amply demonstrated), there's nothing I can
do to help.

Go back and play ****house lawyer.

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Roy Smith wrote:
Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say anything
bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is excellent, and
they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You can download the
data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for fire-sale prices.

And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.

Just you wait until health care is free!!!

I am assuming your trying to say that health care will get worse if it
becomes free. Well, in that case you are arguing against your own
point.

NACO charts are free. It is like free medical care. It is a great
system and works wonderfully. It has inspired many products and
services that don't exist in countries that have user fees. User fees
will wipe all of them except the big ones (like Jepp) and service will
deteriorate.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Matt Barrow wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Roy Smith wrote:

Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say anything
bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is excellent, and
they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You can download the
data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for fire-sale prices.


And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.

Just you wait until health care is free!!!


I am assuming your trying to say that health care will get worse if it
becomes free. Well, in that case you are arguing against your own
point.

NACO charts are free. It is like free medical care. It is a great
system and works wonderfully. It has inspired many products and
services that don't exist in countries that have user fees. User fees
will wipe all of them except the big ones (like Jepp) and service will
deteriorate.


You are trying to reason with another Usenet arrogant ass.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Matt Barrow wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...


Roy Smith wrote:


Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say
anything bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is
excellent, and they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You
can download the data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for
fire-sale prices.


And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.


Just you wait until health care is free!!!

So, what does health care have to do with government approach charts? And,
why would I want to "just wait?"


If you're lame-brained (as you've amply demonstrated), there's nothing I can
do to help.

Go back and play ****house lawyer.


Why do people have to be such assholes.

Now, go back to your gunrack pickup and your high-school drop-out pals.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:


NACO charts are free. It is like free medical care. It is a great
system and works wonderfully. It has inspired many products and
services that don't exist in countries that have user fees. User fees
will wipe all of them except the big ones (like Jepp) and service will
deteriorate.


For those who don't remember, NACO used to be NOAA, which was not part
of the FAA. Several years ago, the department (Commerce I believe) that
owned NOAA wanted to do away with the charting entity; i.e., no more
government charts except for those charts the direct beneficaries wanted
to pony up to save.

A lot of folks thought at the time that the FAA would pick up Sectionals
and perhaps WACs because no one else charts aeronautical topo/nav
charts. The FAA was flush enough at the time to pick up the entire
charting unit.

Next phase will likely be to equate NACO IFR products with Sectionals;
i.e., Sectionals cost quite a bit in paper format.

Once user fees take hold the NACO IFR products will be priced out of
existence.

The airlines have always driven the aviation agenda in this country.
And, they are now broke for the most part and the prime mover behind
user fees.

You know, the thread was about plates. Maybe you could consider moving to
someplace like alt.peoplewithoutlives or rec.politicalcrap with your postings?
It would really improve the atmosphere around here.

On 11/19/2006 9:19 PM, Matt Barrow wrote the following:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Roy Smith wrote:
Say what you want about the FAA in general, but it's hard to say anything
bad about the charting folks. The product they produce is excellent, and
they're constantly looking for ways to improve it. You can download the
data for free on the net, or get it in printed form for fire-sale prices.

And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be
free.

Just you wait until health care is free!!!

In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" said:
And, if/when users fees take root, those NACO charts will no longer be free.

That's a good point I never thought about. The biggest difference
between the Canadian user fee-based system and the U.S. is the free
availablility of charts. This has made possible a number of aviation
technologies, such as laptop/PDA based charts and moving maps, Airnav
etc and a huge number of online services. As far as I know, such things

At one time, you could order Canadian digital data from Energy Mines and
Resources Canada much like you can from the FAA. That went away when
NavCanada took over.

don't exist in Canada. Charts are very expensive and not readily
available. A U.S. pilot who is used to online products will find it
very difficult to fly in Canada (I did).

On the other hand, when I forgot to bring my low altitude en-route chart
on a trip to Ottawa, I just walked into a map store in downtown Ottawa and
bought a new one. Try doing *that* in most US cities.

I fly to Canada often enough that I subscribe to the charts from
NavCanada. A year's worth of Canada Flight Supplements costs about as
much as two would cost you in Canada, or about what one would cost you
from Sporties.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is
necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

NACO charts are free. It is like free medical care. It is a great
system and works wonderfully. It has inspired many products and
services that don't exist in countries that have user fees. User fees
will wipe all of them except the big ones (like Jepp) and service will
deteriorate.

Nothing is free. NACO charts are simply paid for from general revenue
from taxes rather than a separate fee. Same with healthcare in
countries where it isn't a fee-based system. Just look at their tax
structures...

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

NACO charts are free. It is like free medical care. It is a great
system and works wonderfully. It has inspired many products and
services that don't exist in countries that have user fees. User fees
will wipe all of them except the big ones (like Jepp) and service will
deteriorate.

Nothing is free. NACO charts are simply paid for from general revenue
from taxes rather than a separate fee. Same with healthcare in countries
where it isn't a fee-based system. Just look at their tax structures...

Matt

I see many pieces that can be separated out. 1) One is the collection and
dissemination of the data. 2) Another is making electronic versions of the
charts available. This seems like a fairly small by-product of managing the
data in the first place. 3) Another is printing and distributing the bound
chart books.

There are already private companies doing 3) either with their own
proprietary versions like Jepp or simply printing and distributing the
government version (electronically or on paper).

Is there any way to determine what the financial burden on the government is
from 2) and 3) separately?
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK