OT - Video Card Question(s)

...plus the usual floppy drive
Why?

Despite their reported obsolescence, they are still exceedingly useful
for tranfer of small files from machine to machine, especially those
without USB connections and drivers for whatever brand of thumb somebody
has.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
...plus the usual floppy drive
Why?

Despite their reported obsolescence, they are still exceedingly useful for
tranfer of small files from machine to machine, especially those without
USB connections and drivers for whatever brand of thumb somebody has.

Huh? All modern PCs have USB now (heck, any older computer still in use is
very likely to have a USB controller added). As far as drivers go, Windows
has the USB storage device drivers built in. You don't need drivers
specific to the make or model of a USB flash drive. USB is a fine solution,
and CD burners are nearly as ubiquitous. Blank CDs cost less than a floppy,
last time I checked (granted, that hasn't been recently), so if you really
want a viable alternative to USB for "sneaker-net", CDs make a lot more
sense than floppies.

Until I have a chance to try it for myself, I won't bother arguing the RAID
issue that Martin claims, except to say that my nearly-relevant experience
suggests he's wrong (and to explain why I say this).

I built a PC this summer that had a RAID controller on it with a RAID BIOS
setup utility built in. For sure, you didn't need Windows to be installed
to configure the array, and as near as I could tell, once you had the array
configured, Windows would detect it as a plain IDE drive, at least initially
while it was installing, so no extra RAID drivers were necessary. Obviously
once Windows was installed, with the RAID drivers installed, Windows will
handle the higher-level RAID features, such as error reporting and the like.
But I didn't see any sign at all that Windows needed any drivers just to
install.

At the time, I didn't bother to try configuring an array, but for sure
Windows installed onto a single hard drive attached to the RAID controller
without any trouble at all, and no need for a floppy drive.

I haven't bought a computer with a floppy drive in five years, and probably
haven't even used a floppy drive in three. A floppy drive is just a dust
collector these days.

Pete

[re. floppies] Huh? All modern PCs have USB now

To use it, you need a USB device. They are not free. Floppies are just
about free.

As far as drivers go, Windows
has the USB storage device drivers built in.

No it doesn't. Windows 98 is missing lots of drivers, as is 95. And
yes, I encounter these systems all the time in my travels - my wife uses
a 3.11 machine which is fine for what she does (text).

Blank CDs cost less than a floppy

.... and generally can't be erased and reused like a floppy.

Floppies are still a terrific solution for simple text files (like Emails).

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
[re. floppies] Huh? All modern PCs have USB now

To use it, you need a USB device. They are not free. Floppies are just
about free.

Actually, it is not hard to find free USB flash drives. That said, a small
one costs no more than a floppy drive (well, an expensive one like Jay's
proposing to buy, anyway).

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or more.
That's five to ten times as much as a blank CD costs.

As far as drivers go, Windows has the USB storage device drivers built
in.

No it doesn't. Windows 98 is missing lots of drivers, as is 95.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers installed
makes no sense whatsoever. In any case, the fact remains that the drivers
are not specific to the flash drives. The USB flash drives all act as a
standard disk controller, and the standard Windows USB drivers recognize it
as such.

And yes, I encounter these systems all the time in my travels - my wife
uses a 3.11 machine which is fine for what she does (text).

If you have a specific computer that requires the use of a floppy drive to
move data to it, that is one thing. However, it is stupid to generalize
that to a claim that a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing
to have on a brand-new computer.

We are talking about Jay's computer here, not your wife's, or even a
computer that has to operate with your wife's.

Blank CDs cost less than a floppy

... and generally can't be erased and reused like a floppy.

At the price differential, you'd have to be moving a lot of data on a
regular basis before the floppy comes out ahead. For infrequent use, the
read-only nature of CDs is irrelevant (especially given their vastly lower
cost), and for frequent use, floppies are just dumb. If you're moving data
that often, connect the computers with an actual network.

Floppies are still a terrific solution for simple text files (like
Emails).

They are no better a solution than CDs, and frankly when most people want to
move an email message from one computer to another, they EMAIL it.

Again, maybe you have some whacked out, 15-years behind the times situation
in which a floppy drive makes sense. It certainly seems reasonable that if
the rest of your technology is 15 years old, you may need to continue to buy
ancient, obsolete technology in order to continue interoperating with that
15 year old stuff.

But that in no way suggests an answer to the more general question of what a
modern PC needs to have.

Pete

How much of a hit would I take changing instructors this far in?

I haven't seen any. I've seen cheap ones though. (ten dollars or so
for 64 meg).

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or more.

My last set of floppies was free. I got five hundred.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers installed
makes no sense whatsoever.

Meet Windows 98. I'm not completely being fair - I have used my camera
as a thumb drive, and it requires drivers to be downloaded and installed
on Windows 98 machines.

However, it is stupid to generalize that to a claim that
a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing
to have on a brand-new computer.

I'm not. However I've found that obsolete devices come in handy at the
oddest times, and for those times I'm really glad I have them.

I will admit however to not needing a 5 inch drive for a while (though I
did wish I had one some years back)

frankly when most people want to
move an email message from one computer to another, they EMAIL it.

That was Apple's solution some years back. It was dumb then, it's dumb
now. It requires the internet. Floppies don't.

maybe you have some whacked out, 15-years behind the times

Hey!

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
How much of a hit would I take changing instructors this far in?

I haven't seen any. I've seen cheap ones though. (ten dollars or so for
64 meg).

Uh...I think your clipboard got messed up.

In any case, $10 is cheap enough to be effectively free for a device that is
for all practical purposes, infinitely reusable. Beyond that, just look at
the Sunday flyers. If you live in any decent sized city, you've got the
usual chain stores, and they often run promotions in which a USB flash drive
is given away with something you have to buy anyway.

There are other ways to get them free, but the real point is that the cost
of the USB drive is negligible. At least as negligible as using a floppy
drive.

And floppies aren't free...they cost on the order of 50 cents each or
more.

My last set of floppies was free. I got five hundred.

If you can point me to a vendor that one can reliably get 500 floppies at no
charge, fine. Otherwise, I fail to see what your unique situation has to do
with it.

A computer that has a USB controller but does not have USB drivers
installed makes no sense whatsoever.

Meet Windows 98. I'm not completely being fair - I have used my camera as
a thumb drive, and it requires drivers to be downloaded and installed on
Windows 98 machines.

You aren't understanding. I know that Windows 98 doesn't come with USB
drivers. But a computer that has a USB device *does* come with USB drivers,
and to not install those drivers is silly. Once those drivers are
installed, you don't need additional drives specific to the make or model of
USB flash drive.

Your camera may indeed have its own unique, custom drivers that you can
install on Windows 98. But if it complies with the standard USB disk
controller specifications, the default USB drivers are sufficient.

However, it is stupid to generalize that to a claim that
a floppy drive is always (or even often) a useful thing to have on a
brand-new computer.

I'm not. However I've found that obsolete devices come in handy at the
oddest times, and for those times I'm really glad I have them.

I have found that obsolete devices only come in handy when dealing with
other obsolete devices. And as I've said, if one can actually anticipate
having to do so, that's fine. But that has nothing to do with whether Jay's
new PC needs a floppy drive, which is what's being discussed here.

frankly when most people want to move an email message from one computer
to another, they EMAIL it.

That was Apple's solution some years back. It was dumb then, it's dumb
now. It requires the internet. Floppies don't.

Huh? Apple has always had networking built in. Connect up the Appletalk
cable and you're good to go. Still, my point is that if you got the email,
you *have* the Internet. The fact that moving that email requires the
Internet is no big deal, since it's assured to be present.

On the receiving end, perhaps that's not the case, but just how important
could it be to move email from a PC with an email account to one without.
More significantly, how often would you really need to do this? If
infrequently, then use a CD. If often, then that PC really needs a network
connection.

Not only do I not move anything among our four computers using a floppy, I
have never felt that using our LAN was in any way an inconvenience, even for
the smallest of files (I think the smallest file I've ever moved was
probably only 200 bytes or so). More importantly, if someone is not in a
situation where they necessarily need to deal with obsolete hardware, then
there's no reason to buy obsolete hardware to go with their new PC.

Pete

If you can point me to a vendor that one can reliably get 500 floppies at no
charge, fine. Otherwise, I fail to see what your unique situation has to do
with it.

Well, as you say, "just look at the Sunday flyers. If you live in any
decent sized city, you've got the usual chain stores, and they often run
promotions in which..." That's how I got mine. CompUSA if I remember
right. Of course it was some five years ago, back when they were "only"
obsolete.

I know that Windows 98 doesn't come with USB
drivers. But a computer that has a USB device *does* come with USB drivers,
and to not install those drivers is silly. Once those drivers are
installed, you don't need additional drives specific to the make or model of
USB flash drive.

If I am travelling, and am faced with a Windows 98 computer, I will not
be able to use my USB device (an Olympus camera), even if other USB
devices are on the system. I will not be able to install software on
somebody else's computer.

I've yet to try it with a real thumb drive though.

Huh? Apple has always had networking built in. Connect up the Appletalk
cable and you're good to go.

One computer's upstairs. The other is downstairs. The third is across
the street. Floppies work. And the internet is hardly "assured to be
present".

More importantly, if someone is not in a
situation where they necessarily need to deal with obsolete hardware, then
there's no reason to buy obsolete hardware to go with their new PC.

I'm not telling Jay what to buy. I'm just saying not to be so quick to
eliminate the older stuff.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:23:12 -0800, Peter Duniho wrote:

Once those drivers are
installed, you don't need additional drives specific to the make or model of
USB flash drive.

it shows that you never used a USB stick on a win98 machine.

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:35:03 -0800, Peter Duniho wrote:

The USB flash drives all act as a
standard disk controller, and the standard Windows USB drivers recognize it
as such.

no sir.

each USB stick needs is own set of drivers (unless you find some with the
sam chipset). But I agree, mostly these drivers come with a small cd-rom.

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
The USB flash drives all act as a
standard disk controller, and the standard Windows USB drivers recognize
it
as such.

no sir.

Yes sir.

each USB stick needs is own set of drivers (unless you find some with the
sam chipset). But I agree, mostly these drivers come with a small cd-rom.

Baloney. The USB drives have the same disk controller interface found on a
variety of other USB-attached storage devices, and they all comply with the
standard supported in Windows. You do not need to go around installing
drivers specific to your USB flash drive just to get your flash drive to
work.

This is, in fact, one of the reasons that USB flash drives have become so
ubiquitous. Modern PCs already have all the software required in order to
display them as standard file storage devices. You just plug them in and
they work.

Pete