A reluctance to take the controls

"Scott Post" wrote in message
...
I think it's because I knew it would be a sham - I wouldn't really be
flying the plane, so why bother? It would have felt patronizing. I'd
flown with my wife enough to know how much is really involved with flying
a plane and I had great respect for her skills. Taking the yoke for a
bit after she'd trimmed for straight & level wouldn't really be flying
so it didn't seem worth doing.

While I'm a strong supporter of your right to your own opinion , I'd still
like to point out that there is a difference between "flying" and
"piloting".

IMHO, the point of offering the controls to a passenger is to allow them to
"fly". That is, there really is something enjoyable about simply being in
control of an aircraft, and this can be shared with passengers. It's not an
act of patronizing on the pilot's part, nor should the passenger feel that
their control of the aircraft is in any way diminished by their lack of
training.

To be a *pilot* does require quite a lot of training, as well as good
judgment and a variety of other personal qualities. But I don't see that as
any good reason for a passenger to not find *flying* "worth doing". And
even as a passenger without all the training and practice required to be a
"pilot", you certainly would have been "flying" the airplane, had you
accepted the opportunity to do so.

It's a moot point now, but I'll point out that you were probably flying the
airplane in your very first lesson (as all students do). The lack of
training should not have diminished the fact that you were flying, and just
as it shouldn't have then, it shouldn't in a non-training situation. The
only real difference between the two situations is that in one, a qualified
instructor is providing training. What *you* are doing is the same, and
that is flying.

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Scott Post" wrote in message
...
I think it's because I knew it would be a sham - I wouldn't really be
flying the plane, so why bother? It would have felt patronizing. I'd
flown with my wife enough to know how much is really involved with flying
a plane and I had great respect for her skills. Taking the yoke for a
bit after she'd trimmed for straight & level wouldn't really be flying
so it didn't seem worth doing.

While I'm a strong supporter of your right to your own opinion , I'd still
like to point out that there is a difference between "flying" and
"piloting".

IMHO, the point of offering the controls to a passenger is to allow them to
"fly". That is, there really is something enjoyable about simply being in
control of an aircraft, and this can be shared with passengers.

I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

snip

It's a moot point now, but I'll point out that you were probably flying the
airplane in your very first lesson (as all students do). The lack of
training should not have diminished the fact that you were flying, and just
as it shouldn't have then, it shouldn't in a non-training situation. The
only real difference between the two situations is that in one, a qualified
instructor is providing training. What *you* are doing is the same, and
that is flying.

The difference between being handed the controls briefly as a passenger
and taking a lesson is that the typical passenger only gets to hold the
plane level and maybe do some gentle turns. A student gets to take off,
climb, do climbing and decending turns, etc, all in the first lesson.
In fact, I got to do stalls and steep turns in my first lesson. My wife
(and most non-CFI pilots) wouldn't have been comfortable with me doing
much of that. A lot of people would be content just touching the yoke
in level flight, but that didn't interest me.

Someone else mentioned that it'd be like turning down an offer to drive
a friend's Corvette. I turned down an offer to drive my Brother in Law's
Corvette because driving it on the street didn't seem worthwhile. I
used to race motorcycles and get offers from friends with *really* nice
race-bred modern bikes to swap during street rides and I almost never
take them up on it. If I can't wring it out on a track I'd just as
soon pass. I understand I'm in the minority with that opinion.

As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.
--
Scott Post

"Scott Post" wrote in message
m...
I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

Your prerogative. IMHO, you're missing out. Why limit your experiences to
things you can only do to some minimum standard? You're sitting there.
You've got nothing better to do. Why not take the moment? (I ask
rhetorically...IMHO, there is no suitable answer to that question).

The difference between being handed the controls briefly as a passenger
and taking a lesson is that the typical passenger only gets to hold the
plane level and maybe do some gentle turns.

So, in other words it had nothing to do with "how much is really involved
with flying a plane" as it did with your dissatisfaction with the amount of
"stick time" you'd get. That is, IMHO, different from what you originally
said.

At the time, did you tell your wife that you would fly if you got to do more
than just guide the airplane in straight and level flight? I have had had
plenty of passengers do lots more than just hold onto the yoke while the
airplane flies itself. But if a passenger declined to control the airplane
without telling me that they simply wanted to do more, I would have no
reason to suggest that.

A student gets to take off,
climb, do climbing and decending turns, etc, all in the first lesson.
In fact, I got to do stalls and steep turns in my first lesson. My wife
(and most non-CFI pilots) wouldn't have been comfortable with me doing
much of that.

Doing much of what? One doesn't normally do stalls or steep turns in a
typical flight anyway. As far as climbs, descents, turns during those, etc.
go I don't see why your wife wouldn't be comfortable with you doing those
things. I've had my share of passengers handle that sort of thing.

A lot of people would be content just touching the yoke
in level flight, but that didn't interest me.

Someone else mentioned that it'd be like turning down an offer to drive
a friend's Corvette. I turned down an offer to drive my Brother in Law's
Corvette because driving it on the street didn't seem worthwhile. I
used to race motorcycles and get offers from friends with *really* nice
race-bred modern bikes to swap during street rides and I almost never
take them up on it. If I can't wring it out on a track I'd just as
soon pass. I understand I'm in the minority with that opinion.

Yup. You are unnecessarily limiting your experiences. Your loss and, as I
said, your prerogative. Me? Sure, I'd just as soon race a car or bike
around a track if I'm allowed, but if what's available is to just putter
down the street and back, well...that's more than I would have been allowed
otherwise. I'm not going to turn that down, just because I can't fully
utilize the experience.

I wouldn't give up doing something more fun, but if I'm just sitting around
twiddling my thumbs, doing *something*, anything, is better than just
continuing to twiddle my thumbs.

As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.

Could've been anything. Some passengers really are panicked by the idea of
controlling the airplane, some simply are enjoying the moment of looking
outside, and some just don't think it's worth the trouble. If you don't ask
the passenger, there's no way to know.

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Scott Post" wrote in message
om...
I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

Your prerogative. IMHO, you're missing out. Why limit your experiences to
things you can only do to some minimum standard? You're sitting there.
You've got nothing better to do. Why not take the moment?

How does this jive with your question for Jay about experiencing being sodomized
by a guy? :-)

Just so you don't think I'm a total dud, I did drive a cherry picker
yesterday. My neighbor rented it to hang xmas lights. I took him up on
his offer to use it. Great fun - ended up hanging lights all over the
house and in every tree in the front yard. I hope he rents it again
after xmas 'cuz otherwise I'll have to cut down the trees to get the
lights down.

--
Scott Post

"Scott Post" wrote in message
...
Your prerogative. IMHO, you're missing out. Why limit your experiences
to
things you can only do to some minimum standard? You're sitting there.
You've got nothing better to do. Why not take the moment?

How does this jive with your question for Jay about experiencing being
sodomized by a guy? :-)

Because you clearly have a willingness to fly generally.

I take it as granted that there are things that any given person simply will
never have any interest in doing. But that's not the situation with respect
to you and flying.

Just so you don't think I'm a total dud, I did drive a cherry picker
yesterday. My neighbor rented it to hang xmas lights. I took him up on
his offer to use it. Great fun - ended up hanging lights all over the
house and in every tree in the front yard. I hope he rents it again
after xmas 'cuz otherwise I'll have to cut down the trees to get the
lights down.

Yeah, but would you have taken him up on an offer to simply operate the
cherry picker to no useful end for a few minutes? Or was it a requirement
that you actually *did* something with it?

I don't think you're a total dud at all. It's important that you do what
you want, and that you don't waste time doing things you don't want to do.
I just think you're missing some things that you might otherwise enjoy, and
simply don't realize it.

Pete

(Scott Post) wrote:
As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.

Exactly. Even a pilot can, or should be able to, appreciate that, IMO. I
don't see why, if a person declines, that automatically means he/she is
not experiencing life. That's a pretty big stretch. A lot of people
won't even get INTO a small airplane, so I'd say she's already a step
ahead. You don't have to have the controls to still enjoy the thrill of
flying, and who knows, if no one makes a huge production over the fact
that she declined this extraordinary opportunity, maybe she'll want to
try it one day.