Is the pilot license needed...?

There's a generic criminal statute for a materially false, oral or written statement submitted to any fed agency in any official matter.

Yes, but this covers making false statements (as in to the FAA).

If you never make a false statement to the government, and merely fly an
airplane without a license, and without ever having attempted to get
one, is this a criminal act according to statute?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
There's a generic criminal statute for a materially false, oral or
written statement submitted to any fed agency in any official matter.

Yes, but this covers making false statements (as in to the FAA).

If you never make a false statement to the government, and merely fly an
airplane without a license, and without ever having attempted to get one,
is this a criminal act according to statute?

Jose


After a quick and possibly incorrect search this may be you legal catch all.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...6----000-.html

(a) Criminal Penalty.- Except as provided by subsection (b) of this section,
when another criminal penalty is not provided under this chapter, a person
that knowingly and willfully violates this part, a regulation prescribed or
order issued by the Secretary of Transportation (or the Under Secretary of
Transportation for Security with respect to security duties and powers
designated to be carried out by the Under Secretary or the Administrator of
the Federal Aviation Administration with respect to aviation safety duties
and powers designated to be carried out by the Administrator) under this
part, or any term of a certificate or permit issued under section 41102,
41103, or 41302 of this title shall be fined under title 18. A separate
violation occurs for each day the violation continues.

After a quick and possibly incorrect search this may be you legal catch all.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...6----000-.html

(a) Criminal Penalty.- Except as provided by subsection (b) of this section,
when another criminal penalty is not provided under this chapter, a person
that knowingly and willfully violates this part, a regulation prescribed or
order issued by the Secretary of Transportation (or the Under Secretary of
Transportation for Security with respect to security duties and powers
designated to be carried out by the Under Secretary or the Administrator of
the Federal Aviation Administration with respect to aviation safety duties
and powers designated to be carried out by the Administrator) under this
part, or any term of a certificate or permit issued under section 41102,
41103, or 41302 of this title shall be fined under title 18. A separate
violation occurs for each day the violation continues.

That'll do it.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

After a quick and possibly incorrect search this may be you legal catch all.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...6----000-.html


W/o reading other parts of that statute (believe it's the
Aviation Safety Act, empowering DOT and the FAA as to all their
stuff), it refers to "criminal fine" only. No jail?

Fred F.

"TxSrv" wrote in message
. ..
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

After a quick and possibly incorrect search this may be you legal catch
all.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...6----000-.html


W/o reading other parts of that statute (believe it's the Aviation Safety
Act, empowering DOT and the FAA as to all their stuff), it refers to
"criminal fine" only. No jail?

Fred F.


I found it, I found it. At least I think I did.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...7----000-.html

Criminal penalty for pilots operating in air transportation without an
airman's certificate

(a) General Criminal Penalty.- An individual shall be fined under title 18
or imprisoned for not more than 3 years, or both, if that individual-
(1) knowingly and willfully serves or attempts to serve in any capacity as
an airman operating an aircraft in air transportation without an airman's
certificate authorizing the individual to serve in that capacity; or
(2) knowingly and willfully employs for service or uses in any capacity as
an airman to operate an aircraft in air transportation an individual who
does not have an airman's certificate authorizing the individual to serve in
that capacity.

(b) Controlled Substance Criminal Penalty.-
(1) Controlled substances defined.- In this subsection, the term "controlled
substance" has the meaning given that term in section 102 of the
Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 802).
(2) Criminal penalty.- An individual violating subsection (a) shall be fined
under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, if the
violation is related to transporting a controlled substance by aircraft or
aiding or facilitating a controlled substance violation and that
transporting, aiding, or facilitating-
(A) is punishable by death or imprisonment of more than 1 year under a
Federal or State law; or
(B) is related to an act punishable by death or imprisonment for more than 1
year under a Federal or State law related to a controlled substance (except
a law related to simple possession (as that term is used in section
46306(c)) of a controlled substance).
(3) Terms of imprisonment.- A term of imprisonment imposed under paragraph
(2) shall be served in addition to, and not concurrently with, any other
term of imprisonment imposed on the individual subject to the imprisonment.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Criminal penalty for pilots operating in air transportation without an
airman's certificate

...if that individual-
(1) knowingly and willfully serves or attempts to serve in any capacity as
an airman operating an aircraft in air transportation without an airman's
certificate....

Perhaps why att'ys can charge good fees. "in air transportation"
is superfluous if the offense is merely "opearating." So, if
solo and no transport of cargo?

Who knows, but it seems Congress would [should] not intend to
criminalize something which may not be unsafe. And allow fed
prosecutors to screw people at their whim to no public purpose.
For example, a real good student stops the process short of the
check ride and continues to fly. With a fews yrs of meaningful
exp, a good pilot, except for the idiot part. Contrast to a very
avg student who may even be an idiot in general, and who passes
the ride from an easier examiner, and subsequent exp is neither
frequent nor meaningful.

Fred F.

"TxSrv" wrote in message
. ..
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Criminal penalty for pilots operating in air transportation without an
airman's certificate

...if that individual-
(1) knowingly and willfully serves or attempts to serve in any capacity
as an airman operating an aircraft in air transportation without an
airman's certificate....

Perhaps why att'ys can charge good fees. "in air transportation" is
superfluous if the offense is merely "opearating." So, if solo and no
transport of cargo?

Who knows, but it seems Congress would [should] not intend to criminalize
something which may not be unsafe. And allow fed prosecutors to screw
people at their whim to no public purpose. For example, a real good
student stops the process short of the check ride and continues to fly.
With a fews yrs of meaningful exp, a good pilot, except for the idiot
part. Contrast to a very avg student who may even be an idiot in general,
and who passes the ride from an easier examiner, and subsequent exp is
neither frequent nor meaningful.

Fred F.

I looked around and found this definition for air transportation earlier in
the Subtitle. So it looks like the only time a jail sentence could be
imposed via the law I found is if you fly across state or international
lines or carry mail. Keep in mind though the Feds have often defined
"interstate" rather broadly. So broadly, in fact, that the Supreme Court has
slapped them down.

(5) "air transportation" means foreign air transportation, interstate air
transportation, or the transportation of mail by aircraft.

"not be unsafe"? What is not unsafe about piloting a plane without a
license? Would you say that an 18-wheeler truck driver is safe, even if he
has never held a CDL? The public purpose is to stop any old yahoo from
grabbing the keys to their friends plane and launching off. I cannot
understand your post, it's as if you don't think and unlicensed person
should face any penalty for knowingly endangering himself, others and
property, all with no insurance.
Your example is a diversion. If the student pilot were such a hotshot, he
would have completed the written and the checkride and become legal. He
would also understand the reasons why he needed to take the checkride, and
the penalties for not doing so. Sigh, I do hope you are not a pilot or
aspiring pilot IRL, such an anti-authoritarian attitude is one of the 5
traits (look it up).... If you are, I hope you don't fly your Zenith
anywhere in TX.

Do you really believe that a truck driver should be able to drive an
18-wheeler without a CDL, and if
"TxSrv" wrote in message
. ..
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Criminal penalty for pilots operating in air transportation without an
airman's certificate

...if that individual-
(1) knowingly and willfully serves or attempts to serve in any capacity
as an airman operating an aircraft in air transportation without an
airman's certificate....

Perhaps why att'ys can charge good fees. "in air transportation" is
superfluous if the offense is merely "opearating." So, if solo and no
transport of cargo?

Who knows, but it seems Congress would [should] not intend to criminalize
something which may not be unsafe. And allow fed prosecutors to screw
people at their whim to no public purpose. For example, a real good
student stops the process short of the check ride and continues to fly.
With a fews yrs of meaningful exp, a good pilot, except for the idiot
part. Contrast to a very avg student who may even be an idiot in general,
and who passes the ride from an easier examiner, and subsequent exp is
neither frequent nor meaningful.

Fred F.

Barney, I'm going to say this very nicely because I assume you simply failed
to properly read the attributions. But as you can clearly see I never wrote
that flying without a license was not unsafe. I will expect your apology to
be promptly posted. But just in case you are still having problems I will
add some spaces so it will make it easier for you to understand.




"Barney Rubble" wrote in message
...
"not be unsafe"? What is not unsafe about piloting a plane without a
license? Would you say that an 18-wheeler truck driver is safe, even if he
has never held a CDL? The public purpose is to stop any old yahoo from
grabbing the keys to their friends plane and launching off. I cannot
understand your post, it's as if you don't think and unlicensed person
should face any penalty for knowingly endangering himself, others and
property, all with no insurance.
Your example is a diversion. If the student pilot were such a hotshot, he
would have completed the written and the checkride and become legal. He
would also understand the reasons why he needed to take the checkride, and
the penalties for not doing so. Sigh, I do hope you are not a pilot or
aspiring pilot IRL, such an anti-authoritarian attitude is one of the 5
traits (look it up).... If you are, I hope you don't fly your Zenith
anywhere in TX.

Do you really believe that a truck driver should be able to drive an
18-wheeler without a CDL, and if
"TxSrv" wrote in message
. ..
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Criminal penalty for pilots operating in air transportation without an
airman's certificate

...if that individual-
(1) knowingly and willfully serves or attempts to serve in any capacity
as an airman operating an aircraft in air transportation without an
airman's certificate....

Perhaps why att'ys can charge good fees. "in air transportation" is
superfluous if the offense is merely "opearating." So, if solo and no
transport of cargo?

Who knows, but it seems Congress would [should] not intend to criminalize
something which may not be unsafe. And allow fed prosecutors to screw
people at their whim to no public purpose. For example, a real good
student stops the process short of the check ride and continues to fly.
With a fews yrs of meaningful exp, a good pilot, except for the idiot
part. Contrast to a very avg student who may even be an idiot in general,
and who passes the ride from an easier examiner, and subsequent exp is
neither frequent nor meaningful.

Fred F.

Barney Rubble writes:

"not be unsafe"? What is not unsafe about piloting a plane without a
license?

A license does not guarantee competence. Conversely, competence can
exist in the absence of a license.

While it is certainly generally true that unlicensed pilots are likely
to be less competent than licensed pilots, the presence or lack of a
license is no guarantee either way.

This is particularly true for someone who is a qualified pilot but has
no license due to a technicality. It's also true for someone who was
a licensed pilot but again lost his license due to a technicality (or
simply let something lapse).

It's very dangerous to equate licensing with competency.

Would you say that an 18-wheeler truck driver is safe, even if he
has never held a CDL?

There isn't any way of knowing, without testing his abilities.

The public purpose is to stop any old yahoo from
grabbing the keys to their friends plane and launching off. I cannot
understand your post, it's as if you don't think and unlicensed person
should face any penalty for knowingly endangering himself, others and
property, all with no insurance.

See above. It's dangerous to equate competency with licensing. They
are not the same thing, although the general intention is to try to
get them as congruent as possible.

If the student pilot were such a hotshot, he
would have completed the written and the checkride and become legal.

Not if he were excluded on a medical technicality (for example).

--
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