100 Hour Inspections

You own the airplane and have hired a pilot/CFI. This is
not a "for hire "operation. However if you allow the CFI to
sell instruction to other people in your airplane you need
the 100 inspections.

Also, renting an airplane to even a student pilot is not a
"for hire" operation and the airplane does not need the 100
inspection.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
|I was reading some FARs. Specifically, 91.409 section (b).
|
| "(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section,
no person may
| operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a
crewmember) for hire,
| and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an
aircraft which that
| person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of
time in service the
| aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and
been approved for
| return to service in accordance with part 43 of this
chapter or has received
| an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness
certificate in accordance
| with part 21 of this chapter. The 100-hour limitation may
be exceeded by not
| more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where
the inspection can
| be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the
inspection can be
| done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of
time in service."
|
| So let's say I get an Annual on my own plane in January,
fly 100+ hours by
| October, and then hire an instructor in November to get an
IPC or a BFR. Have
| I violated this FAR? Do I need get a 100 hour inspection
or another annual
| first?
|

On Nov 28, 10:24 pm, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
You own the airplane and have hired a pilot/CFI. This is
not a "for hire "operation. However if you allow the CFI to
sell instruction to other people in your airplane you need
the 100 inspections.

Also, renting an airplane to even a student pilot is not a
"for hire" operation and the airplane does not need the 100
inspection.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection? I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection. I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.
Lou

Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I don't think so, Ron.



I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say "carrying
passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

That's not the current word out of Ok CIty. If the instructor provides the
aircraft and does the instruction, yes. If the instructor "borrows" my
airplane (and we need a REAL GOOD definition of "borrow" here) and gives his
student instruction, passing the rental fee on to me, the aircraft does NOT
need the 100 hour.



I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

Again, I do not believe that is true. The instructor must in some way be
providing the aircraft. Simply being employed or associated with the club
or FBO doesn't yield that vital "provides" link.

Jim

Good answers.



"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
| Lou wrote:
|
|
| Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a
CFI keeps
| borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his
personal fee, the
| plane needs a hundred hour inspection?
|
| ABSOLUTELY.
|
| I'm new at this game, but that
| doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the
plane is a rental,
| it needs a hundred hour inspection.
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when
the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If
it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| I am certain that the flying club I
| belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the
club rules not
| the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by
each member, not
| rented.
|
| Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is
if the club
| provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100
hour. If
| the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get
your own
| instructor, it is not.

Ron Natalie wrote in news:456d8f87$0$1618
:

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

This is an interesting point...

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but the student
does)...

The wording would imply that this situation does not require 100 hour
service.

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose the aircraft
and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor and pay him.
The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as supplying the
aircraft.

So long as you are free to use another instructor with this aircraft,
and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this instructor, they are
not tied together.

Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit instructors
to instruct in their aircraft.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
number of airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a
result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join and
they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.



"Jose" wrote in message
news | If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose
the aircraft
| and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor
and pay him.
| The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as
supplying the
| aircraft.
|
| So long as you are free to use another instructor with
this aircraft,
| and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this
instructor, they are
| not tied together.
|
| Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit
instructors
| to instruct in their aircraft.
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
number of airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a
result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join and
they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.

I don't think the waiting period waiver would come into play, but the
discount on fees and dues just might, depending on the FSDO. I'd find
it a very weak argument however. It doesn't make the CFI an employee,
nor does it have the CFI "supplying" the aircraft.

Now, what if a club requires, for the initial checkout only, that a
club-approved (but possibly non-member) CFI conduct the checkout, and
further instruction is at the member's disscretion?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If the club allows the student to use instructors from
outside the club, then the 100 hour inspection is not
required, but most clubs seem to only allow club member
instructors or employees to give instruction. So the
business rules of the club, as applied to the FAR would be
the factor.



"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
| Ron Natalie wrote in
news:456d8f87$0$1618
| :
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction
when the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required.
If it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| This is an interesting point...
|
| If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but
the student
| does)...
|
| The wording would imply that this situation does not
require 100 hour
| service.