100 Hour Inspections

Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I don't think so, Ron.



I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say "carrying
passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

That's not the current word out of Ok CIty. If the instructor provides the
aircraft and does the instruction, yes. If the instructor "borrows" my
airplane (and we need a REAL GOOD definition of "borrow" here) and gives his
student instruction, passing the rental fee on to me, the aircraft does NOT
need the 100 hour.



I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

Again, I do not believe that is true. The instructor must in some way be
providing the aircraft. Simply being employed or associated with the club
or FBO doesn't yield that vital "provides" link.

Jim

Good answers.



"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
| Lou wrote:
|
|
| Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a
CFI keeps
| borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his
personal fee, the
| plane needs a hundred hour inspection?
|
| ABSOLUTELY.
|
| I'm new at this game, but that
| doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the
plane is a rental,
| it needs a hundred hour inspection.
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when
the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If
it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| I am certain that the flying club I
| belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the
club rules not
| the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by
each member, not
| rented.
|
| Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is
if the club
| provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100
hour. If
| the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get
your own
| instructor, it is not.

Ron Natalie wrote in news:456d8f87$0$1618
:

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

This is an interesting point...

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but the student
does)...

The wording would imply that this situation does not require 100 hour
service.

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose the aircraft
and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor and pay him.
The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as supplying the
aircraft.

So long as you are free to use another instructor with this aircraft,
and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this instructor, they are
not tied together.

Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit instructors
to instruct in their aircraft.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
number of airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a
result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join and
they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.



"Jose" wrote in message
news | If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose
the aircraft
| and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor
and pay him.
| The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as
supplying the
| aircraft.
|
| So long as you are free to use another instructor with
this aircraft,
| and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this
instructor, they are
| not tied together.
|
| Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit
instructors
| to instruct in their aircraft.
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
number of airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a
result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join and
they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.

I don't think the waiting period waiver would come into play, but the
discount on fees and dues just might, depending on the FSDO. I'd find
it a very weak argument however. It doesn't make the CFI an employee,
nor does it have the CFI "supplying" the aircraft.

Now, what if a club requires, for the initial checkout only, that a
club-approved (but possibly non-member) CFI conduct the checkout, and
further instruction is at the member's disscretion?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I was just commenting on flying club policies. Club bylaws
often set a ratio or pilots to instructors, so clubs are
always looking for instructors to join. Thus waiting
periods often don't apply to instructors. Some clubs have
other rules, such that, say, The Cessna Employee Flying Club
does have some instructor hired to run the club and other
instructors to teach within the club, but all are Cessna
employees first as their primary job.

Cessna club does not allow non club affiliated CFI to
instruct in the club airplanes, but their policy is still to
do the 100 hour inspections, whether for dual or solo
rental, AFAIK.



"Jose" wrote in message
om...
| Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
| number of airplanes and on the number of instructors.
As a
| result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join
and
| they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.
|
| I don't think the waiting period waiver would come into
play, but the
| discount on fees and dues just might, depending on the
FSDO. I'd find
| it a very weak argument however. It doesn't make the CFI
an employee,
| nor does it have the CFI "supplying" the aircraft.
|
| Now, what if a club requires, for the initial checkout
only, that a
| club-approved (but possibly non-member) CFI conduct the
checkout, and
| further instruction is at the member's disscretion?
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the number of
airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a result, instructors
usually do not have to wait to join and they may even get a discount
on fees ad dues.

I don't think the waiting period waiver would come into play, but the
discount on fees and dues just might, depending on the FSDO. I'd find
it a very weak argument however. It doesn't make the CFI an employee,
nor does it have the CFI "supplying" the aircraft.

Sort of the gold standard is where does the money go. If I pay the
"club" for the instruction and they pay the instructor (most likely
keeping a "cut" for themselves), then it's pretty clear. If
I go out and have to deal with the paying the instructor (even if
he has to be vetted by the club and/or their insurance provider)
then you could argue that the 100 hours aren't required.

If the club allows the student to use instructors from
outside the club, then the 100 hour inspection is not
required, but most clubs seem to only allow club member
instructors or employees to give instruction. So the
business rules of the club, as applied to the FAR would be
the factor.



"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
| Ron Natalie wrote in
news:456d8f87$0$1618
| :
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction
when the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required.
If it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| This is an interesting point...
|
| If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but
the student
| does)...
|
| The wording would imply that this situation does not
require 100 hour
| service.