Chicago area from the southwest - advice?

Chad Speer wrote:
We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
the little guy are of interest.

Flew into KPWK (Formerly Palwaukee, now Chicago Executive) for the
Thanksgiving holiday Seems any time I try to make this trip IFR (I'm
based in Missouri) I always get routed from PLANO OBK KPWK, so keep
that in mind when planning your routing. I'm usually able to get
direct PLANO from pretty far back (SPI usually) so it's not too much of
a guided tour. By PLANO I'm below 4000 MSL, usually get 3000 shortly
thereafter, then 2500 until the ILS into PWK. You'll always get the
ILS into PWK due to O'Hare being very close to the south. If they are
landing north, you won't get a circling approach to 34, cancel IFR if
you can and you'l be able to circle around to 34.

FBO's at PWK seemed to have changed hands a few times. North American
Jet, became Trajen, which became Atlantic. Signature is also on the
field.

I called Atlantic to find out what overnight parking on the ramp would
cost for my Archer, when they quoted me $50/night!!! For a 4 night/5
day stay that was going to cost me more than the fuel to get there!
Obviously Atlantic only wants the bizjet crowd.

Signature was a more reasonable $10/night. For comparison sake,
Shaumburg (06C) quoted me $7/night. Fuel at Signature was a
reasonable (?) $4.50/gal with a $0.50 discount for a weekend takeoff.
Ramp fee of $25 was waived with 7 gals purchased.

Signature was great, gave me full service in all respects, even helping
by entertaining my little one (2 years old) and the family cat which
made the journey with us.

I would have flown into 06C, but I was going to be arriving after dark,
and 06C shuts down at 7pm. There are no instrument arrivals to 06C.
I read somewhere that you could do a arrival into KDPA and then scoot
over to 06C.

In my case, PWK vs 06C is about equal from my in-laws, so ground trip
for them is minimal. MDW is probably a good choice if your going
downtown, since the train is right there.

As to departures.....

Anybody know the secret from departing the chicago area to the
south/southwest? Departing from PWK, I've either been vectored almost
to Iowa and then south, or around Midway to the south, and then brought
back on course. In addition I was told this last time when picking up
my clearance (with a filed 4000 for strong southwest windws at
altitude) that they want you to fly 8000 with the palwaukee two
departure. I've usually been able to negotiate lower, but my
"negotiations" only seem to last till I get handed off to another
sector. As far away as I was from ORD and MDW you'd think lower but
still above the MVA would be better for them, but ATC system design is
still black magic for me.

If this last departure had been closer to VFR conditions, I'd have
probably departed VFR, to pick up my clearance further down the
road.... Maybe next time.

Brian

bdl wrote:
Signature was a more reasonable $10/night. For comparison sake,
Shaumburg (06C) quoted me $7/night. Fuel at Signature was a
reasonable (?) $4.50/gal with a $0.50 discount for a weekend takeoff.
Ramp fee of $25 was waived with 7 gals purchased.


The 0.50/gal discount was taken off of the $4.50/gal so it net'd to
$4/gal in the end. Should have made that clearer

: As to departures.....

: Anybody know the secret from departing the chicago area to the
: south/southwest? Departing from PWK, I've either been vectored almost
: to Iowa and then south, or around Midway to the south, and then brought
: back on course. In addition I was told this last time when picking up
: my clearance (with a filed 4000 for strong southwest windws at
: altitude) that they want you to fly 8000 with the palwaukee two
: departure. I've usually been able to negotiate lower, but my
: "negotiations" only seem to last till I get handed off to another
: sector. As far away as I was from ORD and MDW you'd think lower but
: still above the MVA would be better for them, but ATC system design is
: still black magic for me.

: If this last departure had been closer to VFR conditions, I'd have
: probably departed VFR, to pick up my clearance further down the
: road.... Maybe next time.

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).


Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.

ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?

Brian

"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

wrote:

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the
Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford,
IL).


Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.

ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?

Brian


One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

The best that you can do VFR is squeeze between DuPage and the class B. It's
a nice tour. Even that feels way too far west, if you are headed southeast.

I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
end up at my destination.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte wrote:

One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

Thanks, and I haven't looked at the sectional real close but thats
likely the reason.

I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
end up at my destination.

Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
anybody's approach path.

Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
before I could be turned south.

Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.

I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
I can always cancel.

Thanks for the info.

Brian

"bdl" writes:
Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
anybody's approach path.

If you pass by some high rocks and start seeing an
endless stretch of water ahead of you, you have
probably been sent a bit too far west.

Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
before I could be turned south.

On an airline flight departing LAX, we were vectored west
over the ocean. After quite some time, the pilot told
the passengers that ATC had promised we could turn
east some time before getting to Hawaii.

Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.

I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
I can always cancel.

Everett M. Greene wrote:
If you pass by some high rocks and start seeing an
endless stretch of water ahead of you, you have
probably been sent a bit too far west.

I figured by the time I saw the Alexis Park Inn, I'd land and stay the
night. That's at least way before the rocks. :-)