Light twins not using contra-rotating propellers

Steve Foley writes:

When you approach stop, a bicycle will fall over to one side or the other.
(unless yours still has training wheels).

As long as the rear wheel is powered and both wheels have traction,
the bicycle cannot fall over. The usual reasons for a bicycle falling
over are a loss of traction or a complete absence of propulsive power
to the rear wheel.

Exactly the same principle applies to motorcycles, scooters, etc.

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In article ,
says...


Steve Foley writes:

When you approach stop, a bicycle will fall over to one side or the other.
(unless yours still has training wheels).

As long as the rear wheel is powered and both wheels have traction,
the bicycle cannot fall over. The usual reasons for a bicycle falling
over are a loss of traction or a complete absence of propulsive power
to the rear wheel.

Exactly the same principle applies to motorcycles, scooters, etc.



And what, precisely, do you expect the "propulsive power" to be accomplishing
if the bicycle is stopped?

Do we reject, then, the notion that the gyroscopic stability provided by the
wheels in motion helps to keep the bicycle upright? It is only a question of
"propulsive power" available to the rear wheel (specifically) while both wheels
must have "traction". As long as this is present the bicycle "cannot" fall
over.

Have I resumed your argument correctly?

Greg Farris writes:

And what, precisely, do you expect the "propulsive power" to be accomplishing
if the bicycle is stopped?

He said "when you approach stop." If the bicycle is still moving and
there is power to the wheel, it won't fall.

Do we reject, then, the notion that the gyroscopic stability provided by the
wheels in motion helps to keep the bicycle upright?

No, but kinetic energy in the bicycle keeps it from falling over. In
order to fall over, it has to have no kinetic energy--it has to stop.
But as long as there is power to the wheel and traction, it cannot
stop, therefore it cannot fall over (which would require a loss of
energy that cannot occur).

It is only a question of
"propulsive power" available to the rear wheel (specifically) while both wheels
must have "traction". As long as this is present the bicycle "cannot" fall
over.

Right. It should apply to both wheels, actually, but I haven't
considered that possibility.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Greg Farris writes:


And what, precisely, do you expect the "propulsive power" to be accomplishing
if the bicycle is stopped?


He said "when you approach stop." If the bicycle is still moving and
there is power to the wheel, it won't fall.

One has nothing to do with the other. The rider is solely responsible
for keeping it upright.

Newps writes:

One has nothing to do with the other. The rider is solely responsible
for keeping it upright.

It will stay up by itself as long as it has traction and power (or
momentum).

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Newps writes:

One has nothing to do with the other. The rider is solely responsible
for keeping it upright.

It will stay up by itself as long as it has traction and power (or
momentum).

So, according to your statement above, if I stand off to the side, give it a
good hard shove, and let go of it, the bicycle won't fall over until it
comes to a stop.

You lost the argument a long time ago so now all you have left is to display
your moronity.

Try this one: While riding a bicycle on a flat, level surface which way do
you move the right handle bar to initiate a left turn?

"N2310D" wrote in message
news:zG3ch.52$Qa7.13@trnddc03...

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Newps writes:

One has nothing to do with the other. The rider is solely responsible
for keeping it upright.

It will stay up by itself as long as it has traction and power (or
momentum).

So, according to your statement above, if I stand off to the side, give it
a good hard shove, and let go of it, the bicycle won't fall over until it
comes to a stop.

You lost the argument a long time ago so now all you have left is to
display your moronity.

Try this one: While riding a bicycle on a flat, level surface which way do
you move the right handle bar to initiate a left turn?


I was fourty years old before I learned that one. (Motorcycle Safety
Foundation Rider's Class)

N2310D writes:

So, according to your statement above, if I stand off to the side, give it a
good hard shove, and let go of it, the bicycle won't fall over until it
comes to a stop.

Correct, as long as the wheels don't slip.

You lost the argument a long time ago so now all you have left is to display
your moronity.

I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Try this one: While riding a bicycle on a flat, level surface which way do
you move the right handle bar to initiate a left turn?

The handlebars must be turned slightly to the right.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Newps writes:


One has nothing to do with the other. The rider is solely responsible
for keeping it upright.


It will stay up by itself as long as it has traction and power (or
momentum).


No, it will not. That's ridiculous.

Receptionist
(Rita Davies) Yes, sir?
Man I'd like to have an argument please.
Receptionist Certainly, sir. Have you been here before...?
Man No, this is my first time.
Receptionist I see. Do you want to have the full argument, or were
you thinking of taking a course?
Man Well, what would be the cost?
Receptionist Yes, it's one pound for a five-minute argument, but only
eight pounds for a course of ten.
Man Well, I think it's probably best if I start with the one and see
how it goes from there. OK?
Receptionist Fine. I'll see who's free at the moment ... Mr.
Du-Bakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory ... yes, try Mr.
Barnard - Room 12.
Man Thank you.
The man walks down a corridor. He opens door 12. There is a man at a
desk.
Mr Barnard (shouting) What do you want?
Man Well I was told outside ...
Mr Barnard Don't give me that you snotty-faced heap of parrot
droppings!
Man What!
Mr Barnard Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke!
You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!
Man Look! I came here for an argument.
Mr Barnard (calmly) Oh! I'm sorry, this is abuse.
Man Oh I see, that explains it.
Mr Barnard No, you want room 12A next door.
Man I see - sorry. (exits)
Mr Barnard Not at all. (as he goes) Stupid git.
Outside 12A. The man knocks on the door.
Mr Vibrating (from within) Come in.
The man enters the room. Mr Vibrating is sitting at a desk.
Man Is this the right room for an argument?
Mr Vibrating I've told you once.
Man No you haven't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I have.
Man When?
Mr Vibrating Just now!
Man No you didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did!
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating I'm telling you I did!
Man You did not!
Mr Vibrating I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full
half hour?
Man Oh ... Just a five-minute one.
Mr Vibrating Fine (makes a note of it; the man sists down) thank you.
Anyway, I did.
Man You most certainly did not.
Mr Vibrating Now, let's get one thing quite clear. I most definitely
told you!
Man You did not.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did!!
Man Look, this isn't an argument.
Mr Vibrating Yes it is.
Man No it isn't, it's just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is.
Mr Vibrating It is not.
Man It is. You just contradicted me.
Mr Vibrating No I didn't.
Man Ooh, you did!
Mr Vibrating No, no, no, no, no.
Man You did, just then.
Mr Vibrating No, nonsense!
Man Oh, look this is futile.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man I came here for a good argument.
Mr Vibrating No you didn't, you came here for an argument.
Man Well, an argument's not the same as contradiction.
Mr Vibrating It can be.
Man No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements to
establish a definite proposition.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is. It isn't just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary
position.
Man But it isn't just saying 'No it isn't'.
Mr Vibrating Yes it is.
Man No it isn't, Argument is an intellectual process ...
contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person
says.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is.
Mr Vibrating Not at all.
Man Now look!
Mr Vibrating (pressing the bell on his desk) That's it. Good morning.
Man But I was just getting interested.
Mr Vibrating Sorry the five minutes is up.
Man That was never five minutes just now!
Mr Vibrating I'm afraid it was.
Man No it wasn't.
Mr Vibrating I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.
Man What!?
Mr Vibrating If you want me to go on arguing you'll have to pay for
another five minutes.
Man But that was never five minutes just now ... oh Come on!
(Vibrating looks round as though man was not there) This is ridiculous.
Mr Vibrating I'm very sorry, but I told you I'm not allowed to argue
unless you've paid.
Man Oh. all right. (pays) There you are.
Mr Vibrating Thank you.
Man Well?.
Mr Vibrating Well what?
Man That was never five minutes just now.
Mr Vibrating I told you I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!
Man I've just paid.
Mr Vibrating No you didn't.
Man I did! I did! I did!
Mr Vibrating No you didn't.
Man Look I don't want to argue about that.
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Man Aha! Well if I didn't pay, why are you arguing ... got you!
Mr Vibrating No you haven't.
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Mr Vibrating Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.
Man I've had enough of this.
Mr Vibrating No you haven't.
Man Oh shut up! (he leaves and sees a door marked complaints; he goes
in) I want to complain.
Man in charge You want to complain ... look at these shoes ... I've
only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.
Man No, I want to complain about ...
Man in charge If you complain nothing happens ... you might just as
well not bother. My back hurts and ... (the man exits, walks down the
corridor and enters a room)
Man I want to complain. ('Spreaders' who is just inside the door hits
man on the head with a mallet) Ooh!
Spreaders No, no, no, hold your head like this, and then go 'waaagh'!
Try it again. (he hits him again)
Man Waaghh!
Spreaders Better. Better. But 'waaaaaghh'! 'Waaaagh'! Hold your hands
here ...
Man No!
Spreaders Now. (hits him)
Man Waagh!
Spreaders That's it. That's it. Good.
Man Stop hitting me!
Spreaders What?
Man Stop hitting me.
Spreaders Stop hitting you?
Man Yes.
Spreaders What did you come in here for then?
Man I came here to complain.
Spreaders Oh I'm sorry, that's next door. It's being hit on the head
lessons in here.
Man What a stupid concept.
Detective Inspector Fox enters
Fox Right. Hold it there.
Man and Spreaders What?
Fox Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Inspector Fox of the Light
Entertainment Police, Comedy Division, Special Flying Squad.
Man and Spreaders Flying Fox of the Yard.
Fox Shut up! (he hits the man with a truncheon)
Man Ooooh?
Spreaders No, no, no - Waagh!
Fox And you. (he hits Spreaders)
Spreaders Waagh!
Fox He's good! You could learn a thing or two from him. Right now you
two me old beauties, you are nicked.
Man What for?
Fox I'm charging you under Section 21 of the Strange Sketch Act.
Man The what?
Fox You are hereby charged that you did wilfully take part in a
strange sketch, that is, a skit, spoof or humorous vignette of an
unconventional nature with intent to cause grievous mental confusion to the
Great British Public. (to camera) Evening all.
Spreaders It's a fair cop.
Fox And you tosh. (hits the man)
Man WAAAGH!
Fox That's excellent! Right, come on down the Yard.
Another inspector arrives.
Inspector Hold it. Hold it. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm
Inspector Thompson's Gazelle of the Programme Planning Police, Light
Entertainment Division, Special Flying Squad.
Fox Flying Thompson's Gazelle of the Yard!
Inspector Shut up! (he hits him)
Fox Waaaagh!
Spreaders He's good.
Inspector Shut up! (hits Spreaders)
Spreaders WAAGH!
Man Rotten. (he gets hit) WAAAGH!
Inspector Good. Now I'm arrestin' this entire show on three counts:
one, acts of self-conscious behaviour contrary to the 'Not in front of the
children' Act, two, always saying 'It's so and so of the Yard' every time
the fuzz arrives and, three, and this is the cruncher, offenses against the
'Getting out of sketches without using a proper punchline' Act, four,
namely, simply ending every bleedin' sketch by just having a policeman come
in and... wait a minute.
Another policeman enters.
Policeman Hold it. (puts his hand on Inspector Thompson's Gazelle's
shoulder)
Inspector It's a fair cop.
A large hairy hand appears through the door and claps him on the
shoulder.


Bicycles are open loop unstable at all speeds.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
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