Question of aborted landing after instrument approach

Ray,

Thanks for finding the pertinent section of the AIM for us. I'm glad I
asked!

I don't have too many actual hours under my belt, but I've never
self-briefed a DP before an approach. Next time, I will -- at a minimum
to find out if there are any interesting objects I need to be aware of
in the departure path.

-- dave j

Ray wrote:
After looking at the AIM I found that I was wrong and the original
poster was correct - the AIM recommends flying the departure procedu

AIM 5-4-21(g)
"Missed approach obstacle clearance is predicated on beginning the
missed approach procedure at the MAP from MDA or DA and then climbing
200 feet/NM or greater. Initiating a go-around after passing the
published MAP may result in total loss of obstacle clearance. To
compensate for the possibility of reduced obstacle clearance during a
go-around, a pilot should apply procedures used in takeoff planning.
Pilots should refer to airport obstacle and departure data prior to
initiating an instrument approach procedure."

Learn something new every day...

- Ray

That is a very good observation. I would be interested to know how many
airports there are where the difference between a missed and a
departure procedure are significantly different to warrant
consideration.


wrote:
Ray,

Thanks for finding the pertinent section of the AIM for us. I'm glad I
asked!

I don't have too many actual hours under my belt, but I've never
self-briefed a DP before an approach. Next time, I will -- at a minimum
to find out if there are any interesting objects I need to be aware of
in the departure path.

-- dave j

Ray wrote:
After looking at the AIM I found that I was wrong and the original
poster was correct - the AIM recommends flying the departure procedu

AIM 5-4-21(g)
"Missed approach obstacle clearance is predicated on beginning the
missed approach procedure at the MAP from MDA or DA and then climbing
200 feet/NM or greater. Initiating a go-around after passing the
published MAP may result in total loss of obstacle clearance. To
compensate for the possibility of reduced obstacle clearance during a
go-around, a pilot should apply procedures used in takeoff planning.
Pilots should refer to airport obstacle and departure data prior to
initiating an instrument approach procedure."

Learn something new every day...

- Ray

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

That is a very good observation. I would be interested to know how many
airports there are where the difference between a missed and a
departure procedure are significantly different to warrant
consideration.

You would have to justify that use of the ODP was prudent because it
would be an exercise of emergency authority.

Why is ODP an emergency procedure?


Sam Spade wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

That is a very good observation. I would be interested to know how many
airports there are where the difference between a missed and a
departure procedure are significantly different to warrant
consideration.

You would have to justify that use of the ODP was prudent because it
would be an exercise of emergency authority.

Why is ODP an emergency procedure?

It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP
at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide
obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify
as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action.

The ODP would be a reasonable course of action in that circumstance, at
least until a point at which the missed approach could be joined.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

Why is ODP an emergency procedure?


It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP
at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide
obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify
as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action.

Read AIM 5.5.5

The ODP would be a reasonable course of action in that circumstance, at
least until a point at which the missed approach could be joined.

Jose

That would be your argument if any enforcement action resulted in the
event of a loss of separation.

It isn't. However, a go-around started in IMC far enough past the MAP at an airport where the missed approach procedure does not provide obstacle clearance if it's started past the MAP could certainly qualify as an emergency for purposes of choosing a course of action.


Read AIM 5.5.5

I did. Read AIM 5.5.5 (a)(4), which makes my point.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Why is ODP an emergency procedure?

Because it is not in accordance with your air traffic clearance. See
AIM 5-5-5.

I don't see any reference to ODP as an emergency procedure in AIM
5-5-5. It simply says fly the missed approach if you can't make the
landing. It also tells you what to do if you start the missed approach
prior to reaching the MAP. It doesn't say anything about what to do if
you start the missed approach after the MAP, but AIM 5-4-21 does. It
clearly states that you are expected to fly the ODP.




Sam Spade wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Why is ODP an emergency procedure?

Because it is not in accordance with your air traffic clearance. See
AIM 5-5-5.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I don't see any reference to ODP as an emergency procedure in AIM
5-5-5. It simply says fly the missed approach if you can't make the
landing. It also tells you what to do if you start the missed approach
prior to reaching the MAP. It doesn't say anything about what to do if
you start the missed approach after the MAP, but AIM 5-4-21 does. It
clearly states that you are expected to fly the ODP.


Read that as you choose.

You will be operating contrary to your clearance. Tell me how you do
that without declaring an emergency or obtaining an amended clearane

The latter won't happen in a non-radar environment.